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Gaelic language falls afoul of football fans .

Cellachán Chaisil

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To begin, this isn't a post about Irish, but about her sister language Gaelic. Very often we are lead to belief that widespread animosity towards the Irish language stems from compulsion in schools, however a recent reaction to a twitter post from the Scottish FA shows that there may be alternative reasons.

It may have escaped your forum-goers notice, but yesterday was international minority languages day and, not coincidentally, Là/Latha na Gàidhlig. To celebrate this fact, the Scottish FA tweeted a rather simple message and translated subsequent messages to Gàidhlig:

Thionndadh sinn ar duilleag Twitter gu #Gàidhlig mar phàirt de Latha Twitter na Gàidhlig!
For today, we've translated the Scottish FA Twitter page into #Gaidhlig as part of Gaelic Twitter Day. #TIML2016
https://twitter.com/ScottishFA/status/723057418914029568

Cue incandescent rage. Many, both English and Scottish people laid into the SFA criticising them over a range of issues such as cost (for a tweet?), speaking a (foreign?) language no one understands and most inexplicably, that they had done so to purposely offend the queen on her birthday!

Tuairisc.ie | Raic faoi chinneadh an Scottish FA Gáidhlig a chur ar leathanach Twitter

Which begs the question, are English speakers more likely to find multilingualism offensive than others? And could such an attitude be partly to blame for the negative attitudes many here have to Irish?
 


Dame_Enda

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An awful lot of Lowland Scots come from lineages that never spoke Scots Gaelic and who were imported from England, France and Flanders by the English speaking Scottish kings that began with Edgar. Also Lothian was never Gaelic speaking at all.
 
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Cellachán Chaisil

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An awful lot of Lowland Scots come from lineages that never spoke Scots Gaelic and who were imported from England, France and Flanders by the English speaking Scottish kings that began with Edgar.
Of course, but why does that necessarily translate to negativity towards Gaelic?
 

A REASON

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To begin, this isn't a post about Irish, but about her sister language Gaelic. Very often we are lead to belief that widespread animosity towards the Irish language stems from compulsion in schools, however a recent reaction to a twitter post from the Scottish FA shows that there may be alternative reasons.

It may have escaped your forum-goers notice, but yesterday was international minority languages day and, not coincidentally, Là/Latha na Gàidhlig. To celebrate this fact, the Scottish FA tweeted a rather simple message and translated subsequent messages to Gàidhlig:





https://twitter.com/ScottishFA/status/723057418914029568

Cue incandescent rage. Many, both English and Scottish people laid into the SFA criticising them over a range of issues such as cost (for a tweet?), speaking a (foreign?) language no one understands and most inexplicably, that they had done so to purposely offend the queen on her birthday!

Tuairisc.ie | Raic faoi chinneadh an Scottish FA Gáidhlig a chur ar leathanach Twitter

Which begs the question, are English speakers more likely to find multilingualism offensive than others? And could such an attitude be partly to blame for the negative attitudes many here have to Irish?
Claims to have been tortured by the language in school is always just a handy excuse for people who deep down are ashamed they can't speak their own language. Hearing people speak it angers them, it makes them feel less Irish.
 

stakerwallace

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Cuir an rud seo isteach i ngairdín na nainmhithe
 

Dame_Enda

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Of course, but why does that necessarily translate to negativity towards Gaelic?
For some it might be an uncomfortable reminder of their foreign origins. For the Loyalist community of Ulster Unionist migrant origin since the 1850s economic crisis it's a reminder of Irish nationalism. Among Scots Protestants during the Reformation and afterwards it was vilified as an obstacle to the Reformation particularly in the Highlands. James VI/I issued the Statutes of Iona which attempted to "extirpate" the language, which was referred to as "Irish/Erse".
 

ne0ica

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An awful lot of Lowland Scots come from lineages that never spoke Scots Gaelic and who were imported from England, France and Flanders by the English speaking Scottish kings that began with Edgar. Also Lothian was never Gaelic speaking at all.
And those same lowland Scots and their kin in Ulster highjack Highland culture and dress as their 'Kulture'
 

Orbit v2

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For some it might be an uncomfortable reminder of their foreign origins. For the Loyalist community of Ulster Unionist migrant origin since the 1850s economic crisis it's a reminder of Irish nationalism. Among Scots Protestants during the Reformation and afterwards it was vilified as an obstacle to the Reformation particularly in the Highlands. James VI/I issued the Statutes of Iona which attempted to "extirpate" the language, which was referred to as "Irish/Erse".
Most Gaelic speakers in Scotland would be protestant anyway. So, that's hard to understand.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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For some it might be an uncomfortable reminder of their foreign origins. For the Loyalist community of Ulster Unionist migrant origin since the 1850s economic crisis it's a reminder of Irish nationalism. Among Scots Protestants during the Reformation and afterwards it was vilified as an obstacle to the Reformation particularly in the Highlands. James VI/I issued the Statutes of Iona which attempted to "extirpate" the language, which was referred to as "Irish/Erse".
Lowlanders have been in Scotland as long as Gaels.
 

ergo2

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Never knew yesterday was minority languages day.

It should have been used to promote Irish.

Fair play to the Scots' FA for seizing the day
 

Dame_Enda

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Lowlanders have been in Scotland as long as Gaels.
The Lowlander identity hasn't. It's largely a product of what I explained before. King Malcolm III married Margaret of Wessex, who started a programme of Anglicising the court. After she died there was a civil war between Malcolm's Gaelic speaking brother Donald Bane and her English speaking son Edgar, which the latter eventually won with help of Anglo Norman mercenaries.
 

Dame_Enda

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Most Gaelic speakers in Scotland would be protestant anyway. So, that's hard to understand.
For centuries it wasn't the case or it was a very mixed region religiously. And when they did convert it tended to be to Anglicanism/Episcopalianism which was more in line with the clan concept of loyalty to the chief, unlike Presbyterianisms lack of respect for royal or aristocratic power.
 

Dasayev

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To become British or Unionist is accept the philosophy of Make the World England.

To do this you obviously must do away with any language other than English.

This situation is just one little example of the result of hundreds of years of anglicisation. Scots with a hostility to their own culture.

We have this in Ireland too with Unionists, often with Gaelic names, etc, hostile to Gaelic culture. Those in the Republic most hostile to Irish are a remanent of this British conformity.
 

Brenny

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An awful lot of Lowland Scots come from lineages that never spoke Scots Gaelic and who were imported from England, France and Flanders by the English speaking Scottish kings that began with Edgar. Also Lothian was never Gaelic speaking at all.
For some it might be an uncomfortable reminder of their foreign origins. For the Loyalist community of Ulster Unionist migrant origin since the 1850s economic crisis it's a reminder of Irish nationalism. Among Scots Protestants during the Reformation and afterwards it was vilified as an obstacle to the Reformation particularly in the Highlands. James VI/I issued the Statutes of Iona which attempted to "extirpate" the language, which was referred to as "Irish/Erse".
You've hit on a distinction that many Irish (and non-Scots in general) miss. Some say that the trouble with Scottish identity began when King George IV, a big fan of Walter Scott's novels, visited Scotland in 1822 wearing a kilt. This horrified the majority of the Scots assembled - it was akin to Obama visiting Ireland wearing a Healy-Rae flat cap - but left them with a predicament that they have struggled with to this very day. The majority of lowland Scots never wore a kilt or spoke Gaelic and, most importantly, neither did the vast majority of their ancestors but they've been burdened by this bagpipe-playing, kilt wearing image ever since (let's not even mention braveheart).

The Gaelic language was introduced from Ireland in the early Christian period (or perhaps in the immediate pre-Christian period) and spread gradually through much, but certainly not all, of Scotland thanks in part to military successes, dynastical succession and the cultural superiority of the literate Gaelic population in comparison to the illiterate, indigenous Picts (we don't know what language they spoke). In the south of what is now Scotland was a large population of Angles from whom we get the present day language/dialect of Scots. It is this lowland population, largely descended from Angles, that largely defines the modern Scottish population. Gaelic has been declining since the reign of the Stuarts with the Highland clearances proving almost fatal.

The history of Scotland is interesting but it is not analogous to ours and Gaelic is not exactly their native language.
 

Dame_Enda

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You've hit on a distinction that many Irish (and non-Scots in general) miss. Some say that the trouble with Scottish identity began when King George IV, a big fan of Walter Scott's novels, visited Scotland in 1822 wearing a kilt. This horrified the majority of the Scots assembled - it was akin to Obama visiting Ireland wearing a Healy-Rae flat cap - but left them with a predicament that they have struggled with to this very day. The majority of lowland Scots never wore a kilt or spoke Gaelic and, most importantly, neither did the vast majority of their ancestors but they've been burdened by this bagpipe-playing, kilt wearing image ever since (let's not even mention braveheart).

The Gaelic language was introduced from Ireland in the early Christian period (or perhaps in the immediate pre-Christian period) and spread gradually through much, but certainly not all, of Scotland thanks in part to military successes, dynastical succession and the cultural superiority of the literate Gaelic population in comparison to the illiterate, indigenous Picts (we don't know what language they spoke). In the south of what is now Scotland was a large population of Angles from whom we get the present day language/dialect of Scots. It is this lowland population, largely descended from Angles, that largely defines the modern Scottish population. Gaelic has been declining since the reign of the Stuarts with the Highland clearances proving almost fatal.

The history of Scotland is interesting but it is not analogous to ours and Gaelic is not exactly their native language.
Well I don't know if I would go as far as saying that the majority of Lowlanders don't have Gaelic speaking ancestors. After all a lot of Highlanders that didn't emigrate during the Clearances moved South. DNA evidence points to 30-50% Germanic in Lowlands I read a while back. The country was about 33% Gaelic speaking in the early 1700s. Lowland Gaelic died out in 1760 by which time it was known as Galwegian Gaelic as it was spoken in Galloway.

Evidence from Welsh sounding place names in Scotland eg Aberdeen suggests that the Picts spoke a language similar to the ancestor of Welsh. Perhaps even a Common British Celtic language. On "The Story of Wales" on BBC Huw Edwards from BBC was able to understand the Cumbric language as similar to Welsh. Cumbric was spoken in the old Kingdom of Strathclyde.
 
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P Ryan

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To become British or Unionist is accept the philosophy of Make the World England.

To do this you obviously must do away with any language other than English.

This situation is just one little example of the result of hundreds of years of anglicisation. Scots with a hostility to their own culture.

We have this in Ireland too with Unionists, often with Gaelic names, etc, hostile to Gaelic culture. Those in the Republic most hostile to Irish are a remanent of this British conformity.
That would really be represented by FGs support base in general here.
 

Ireniall

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You've hit on a distinction that many Irish (and non-Scots in general) miss. Some say that the trouble with Scottish identity began when King George IV, a big fan of Walter Scott's novels, visited Scotland in 1822 wearing a kilt. This horrified the majority of the Scots assembled - it was akin to Obama visiting Ireland wearing a Healy-Rae flat cap - but left them with a predicament that they have struggled with to this very day. The majority of lowland Scots never wore a kilt or spoke Gaelic and, most importantly, neither did the vast majority of their ancestors but they've been burdened by this bagpipe-playing, kilt wearing image ever since (let's not even mention braveheart).

The Gaelic language was introduced from Ireland in the early Christian period (or perhaps in the immediate pre-Christian period) and spread gradually through much, but certainly not all, of Scotland thanks in part to military successes, dynastical succession and the cultural superiority of the literate Gaelic population in comparison to the illiterate, indigenous Picts (we don't know what language they spoke). In the south of what is now Scotland was a large population of Angles from whom we get the present day language/dialect of Scots. It is this lowland population, largely descended from Angles, that largely defines the modern Scottish population. Gaelic has been declining since the reign of the Stuarts with the Highland clearances proving almost fatal.

The history of Scotland is interesting but it is not analogous to ours and Gaelic is not exactly their native language.
I think there is an on-going revision of that long accepted version of history with regard to the extent to which Gaelic was spoken in Scotland-some revisionists claiming that it was spoken in every corner of modern -day Scotland at its height,and the idea that it came from Ireland originally with one prominent boffin claiming that this is unlikely given that other cultural characteristics of Ireland are not found at all. He mentions building methods and pottery. He argues that Ireland and Scotland are both part of the original Gaelic homeland.
 

Dame_Enda

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Important to remember also that parts of Scotland including Edinburgh were for centuries in the Anglo-Saxon/Viking kingdom of Northumbria before being conquered by the Gaelic speaking Scots.
 
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Shannon73

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That would really be represented by FGs support base in general here.
Fan Nóiméad P. Some years ago there were more speakers in Irish among the FG ranks than in FF, Have you forgotten tha the second great aim of the Republican Party is (and was) the restoration of the Irish Language.They have done a mighty job, do you not agree? How many FF T.Ds, apart from those in the Gaeltacht of Donegal, can speak Irish?

The Queen, on her visit, caused President McAleese to say "wow" on hearing her visitor's Irish. The cribbers about the Fa translation must never have heard about their Monarch's use of the Irish Language!

Pity so many speak about the use/non-use of the Irish language instead of speaking it.Beidh lá eile ag an bPaorach when the non users take up the language.
 


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