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Gardai lose files on gun owners.


slippy wicket

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Mar 10, 2010
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Newstalk - Gardai lose sensitive files on handgun owners

Unfortunately the SBP article is behind a paywall, so no point in linking to that.
As a gun owner, I must say that stories like this concern me greatly. The last thing any of us want is to have some scum arrive out to steal firearms.
 


LamportsEdge

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Jan 10, 2012
Messages
21,894
What concerns me is the constant reporting of the police force of the Republic of Ireland and their apparently pathological ability to 'lose' files.

Firstly, I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai appear in the 21st century to only have paper files considering it is a long time now since computers and servers first landed on Ireland's shores.

Secondly I would like to know whether the Garda Siochana have thought of applying for an EU grant in recognition of their remarkable abilities with filing of reports and the sheer amount they manage to regretfully lose. They could be in line for an award in innovation in policework globally- either that or the Turner Prize for a piece of installation art consisting of a filing cabinet with nothing in it marked 'Stalwartrecordkeeping'.

They are nothing but a Lilliputian, thoroughly dishonest and disreputable shambles of a loose description of police force if they expect to be believed on the subject of the loss of paperwork at this point in European digital history.

Only a peasant police force would expect to get away without being ridiculed for their blatant dishonesty with regard to the loss of inconvenient paperwork. They are a joke in governance.
 

slippy wicket

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Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
4,559
What concerns me is the constant reporting of the police force of the Republic of Ireland and their apparently pathological ability to 'lose' files.

Firstly, I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai appear in the 21st century to only have paper files considering it is a long time now since computers and servers first landed on Ireland's shores.

Secondly I would like to know whether the Garda Siochana have thought of applying for an EU grant in recognition of their remarkable abilities with filing of reports and the sheer amount they manage to regretfully lose. They could be in line for an award in innovation in policework globally- either that or the Turner Prize for a piece of installation art consisting of a filing cabinet with nothing in it marked 'Stalwartrecordkeeping'.

They are nothing but a Lilliputian, thoroughly dishonest and disreputable shambles of a loose description of police force if they expect to be believed on the subject of the loss of paperwork at this point in European digital history.

Only a peasant police force would expect to get away without being ridiculed for their blatant dishonesty with regard to the loss of inconvenient paperwork. They are a joke in governance.
Very good points there, they even have a habit of 'losing' applications pending with them.
Especially with the switch over to the new firearms licencing system, a lot of people had forms mislaid. There was no accountability or no responsibility taken for any problems as a result of that.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
18,252
What concerns me is the constant reporting of the police force of the Republic of Ireland and their apparently pathological ability to 'lose' files.

Firstly, I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai appear in the 21st century to only have paper files considering it is a long time now since computers and servers first landed on Ireland's shores.

Secondly I would like to know whether the Garda Siochana have thought of applying for an EU grant in recognition of their remarkable abilities with filing of reports and the sheer amount they manage to regretfully lose. They could be in line for an award in innovation in policework globally- either that or the Turner Prize for a piece of installation art consisting of a filing cabinet with nothing in it marked 'Stalwartrecordkeeping'.

They are nothing but a Lilliputian, thoroughly dishonest and disreputable shambles of a loose description of police force if they expect to be believed on the subject of the loss of paperwork at this point in European digital history.

Only a peasant police force would expect to get away without being ridiculed for their blatant dishonesty with regard to the loss of inconvenient paperwork. They are a joke in governance.
Overall, and in comparison with other police forces, my experiences of the average Guard/detective has been very positive. Perhaps the system is a mess but we are very lucky with the vast majority of the personnel.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Jun 10, 2009
Messages
3,841
What concerns me is the constant reporting of the police force of the Republic of Ireland and their apparently pathological ability to 'lose' files.

Firstly, I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai appear in the 21st century to only have paper files considering it is a long time now since computers and servers first landed on Ireland's shores.

Secondly I would like to know whether the Garda Siochana have thought of applying for an EU grant in recognition of their remarkable abilities with filing of reports and the sheer amount they manage to regretfully lose. They could be in line for an award in innovation in policework globally- either that or the Turner Prize for a piece of installation art consisting of a filing cabinet with nothing in it marked 'Stalwartrecordkeeping'.

They are nothing but a Lilliputian, thoroughly dishonest and disreputable shambles of a loose description of police force if they expect to be believed on the subject of the loss of paperwork at this point in European digital history.

Only a peasant police force would expect to get away without being ridiculed for their blatant dishonesty with regard to the loss of inconvenient paperwork. They are a joke in governance.
Do you remember the furore over the PULSE system?

A system being introduced to make it easier for garda to do their job and what do they do? Go on strike (blue flu) and the government capitulated. Imagine owning an IT company and your employees threaten to go on strike because you're introducing e-mail.
 

southwestkerry

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Aug 20, 2008
Messages
4,229
loosing files is something any public servant is good at doing, just look at the Health board how many times have they been pulled up at this.
SwK:shock2:
 

wexfordman

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Nov 19, 2006
Messages
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We're these individuals files lost across a number of stations or one large file or box of files, it's difficult to understand from that article?

Either way doesn't rely surprise me, the one thing I do know is that gardai havmt a notion about firearms, and there is such a variation in the way guidelines are applied from station to station.

My last firearms application consisted of about 40 pages of useless documentation, towing and frying and bending over backwards for a super who had absolutely no clue about firearms.

Same super insisted a friend of mine get a letter from his doctor to say he needed a silencwr/moderator to protect his hearing, and when he got it, the super refused the silencer! Imagine that, asking a member of the public to got to his doctor spend 50 EURO to get a letter and then literally throwing it in the bi!

And, wait for this one.... Every single firearms licence is a printed document with your name and address on it!! Which you must carry with you at all times with your firearm. I How secure is that eh!!
 

lostexpectation

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The Data Protection Commission has confirmed it received a number of complaints regarding the loss of the data at a number of Garda stations around the country.
why we people complaining? was it making it difficult to register or renew licenses for guns, were the police accusing people having unregistered guns when they had registered them and the police had lost the files?

could these files have been stolen by gangs looking for guns
 

Shpake

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Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,326
We're these individuals files lost across a number of stations or one large file or box of files, it's difficult to understand from that article?

Either way doesn't rely surprise me, the one thing I do know is that gardai havmt a notion about firearms, and there is such a variation in the way guidelines are applied from station to station.

.. Every single firearms licence is a printed document with your name and address on it!! Which you must carry with you at all times with your firearm. I How secure is that eh!!
No! the Garda writes it out with a pencil on a sheet of paper. If he used his rubber to erase the previous document(s) that would save on stationery costs and would explain all the missing files except one.
 
Last edited:

wexfordman

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why we people complaining? was it making it difficult to register or renew licenses for guns, were the police accusing people having unregistered guns when they had registered them and the police had lost the files?

could these files have been stolen by gangs looking for guns

Perhaps it's a tactic to get the gardai to get their arses in gear. Lost paperwork would be a regular excuse for delayed firearms application processing which is supposed to take no more than 3 months. I would imaging the data commissioner on their cases might limit the number of times this excuse is used in the future.

If that's the case, then it's a good tactic.
 

Sparks

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stochasticgeometry.ie
why we people complaining? was it making it difficult to register or renew licenses for guns, were the police accusing people having unregistered guns when they had registered them and the police had lost the files?
None of the above exactly. The firearms application form is about nine pages long; it contains your name, address, firearm details, character references including their name and address, your doctor's name and address and permission to access your medical files, where you intend to store the firearm and where you intend to use it.

A form like that is somewhat sensitive, I think you'd agree - for something like that to be misplaced should be a big deal.
 

Troy_337

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Troy_337

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Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
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We're these individuals files lost across a number of stations or one large file or box of files, it's difficult to understand from that article?

Either way doesn't rely surprise me, the one thing I do know is that gardai havmt a notion about firearms, and there is such a variation in the way guidelines are applied from station to station.

My last firearms application consisted of about 40 pages of useless documentation, towing and frying and bending over backwards for a super who had absolutely no clue about firearms.

Same super insisted a friend of mine get a letter from his doctor to say he needed a silencwr/moderator to protect his hearing, and when he got it, the super refused the silencer! Imagine that, asking a member of the public to got to his doctor spend 50 EURO to get a letter and then literally throwing it in the bi!

And, wait for this one.... Every single firearms licence is a printed document with your name and address on it!! Which you must carry with you at all times with your firearm. I How secure is that eh!!
Why do you need firearms?
 

Troy_337

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In Ireland, agricultural uses (ie. shooting foxes on chicken farms or birds eating planted seed and the like), hunting (for the pot), target shooting, or a few other minor uses (humane dispatch of animals by vets, starting athletic races, paintball, that kind of thing).
Oh. :shock:
 

Eire1976

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Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,146
What concerns me is the constant reporting of the police force of the Republic of Ireland and their apparently pathological ability to 'lose' files.

Firstly, I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai appear in the 21st century to only have paper files considering it is a long time now since computers and servers first landed on Ireland's shores.

Secondly I would like to know whether the Garda Siochana have thought of applying for an EU grant in recognition of their remarkable abilities with filing of reports and the sheer amount they manage to regretfully lose. They could be in line for an award in innovation in policework globally- either that or the Turner Prize for a piece of installation art consisting of a filing cabinet with nothing in it marked 'Stalwartrecordkeeping'.

They are nothing but a Lilliputian, thoroughly dishonest and disreputable shambles of a loose description of police force if they expect to be believed on the subject of the loss of paperwork at this point in European digital history.

Only a peasant police force would expect to get away without being ridiculed for their blatant dishonesty with regard to the loss of inconvenient paperwork. They are a joke in governance.
They are nearly as bad as MI5 for leaving files around.
 

nakatomi

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Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,728
why we people complaining? was it making it difficult to register or renew licenses for guns, were the police accusing people having unregistered guns when they had registered them and the police had lost the files?

could these files have been stolen by gangs looking for guns

Yes, a family member was.
 

dunno

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Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
1,286
What concerns me is the constant reporting of the police force of the Republic of Ireland and their apparently pathological ability to 'lose' files.

Firstly, I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai appear in the 21st century to only have paper files considering it is a long time now since computers and servers first landed on Ireland's shores.

Secondly I would like to know whether the Garda Siochana have thought of applying for an EU grant in recognition of their remarkable abilities with filing of reports and the sheer amount they manage to regretfully lose. They could be in line for an award in innovation in policework globally- either that or the Turner Prize for a piece of installation art consisting of a filing cabinet with nothing in it marked 'Stalwartrecordkeeping'.

They are nothing but a Lilliputian, thoroughly dishonest and disreputable shambles of a loose description of police force if they expect to be believed on the subject of the loss of paperwork at this point in European digital history.

Only a peasant police force would expect to get away without being ridiculed for their blatant dishonesty with regard to the loss of inconvenient paperwork. They are a joke in governance.
The tinfoil hatter in me has a corrupt Guard losing the file to some crim for money, but bungling is a likelier explanation. I myself have to be grateful, that they bungle records and evidence.
 

Analyzer

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waiting on Shattered to tell us that some of this is Worzel's fault.....
 

LamportsEdge

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Maybe the Gardai and MI5 are running some kind of joint operation. The Gardai appear incapable of a filing system and MI5 can't stop finding files. A sort of cosmic balance of publicly paid anglo-Irish incompetence.

At some point though some senior Garda who isn't actually a carrot is going to ponder for a few minutes and then come up with a question; 'How come we lose so many files?'

This has been a commonplace policy move now for Gardai whether it be in some county courthouse, a retired Sergeant's desk, and reached its apex in public affairs in Ireand when the Office of the Chief Solicitor adopted the technique in 'forgetting' misprision of felony should be brought forward between one Criminal Justice Act and another back around 2001.

Sure it can happen to anyone. A page coming loose and lying in the back of a drawer. All rise for a quick trot around Amhrann na Bhfian.

What interests me most of all is the blanket assumption by these Keystoners that there won't be any computer records on a server somewhere.

And reminds me of the raid on the Revenue Office where some bunch of digital geniuses appeared to think if they robbed physical computers off certain desks that the records they wanted to disappear would be eliminated forever.

The blatant lack of any kind of knowledge of modern data sharing and storing is what makes me suspicious that these clowns were actually not a million miles away from civil service themselves.

Two questions come to mind: Are there really people involved in public policing in 2012 in Ireland who are so blissfully unaware of any file storage developments since the 1970's that they assume that when a piece of paper disappears that whole record is gone forever from Irish public history? The second being if that is the case then why are the Gardai among other Irish civil bodies operating a paper-only early 1970's filing system in the year 2012?

Perhaps a third and final question. Does anyone actually believe the Gardai when they announce files have been 'lost'? I know I don't. What I believe I'm seeing when I see that kind of report is that someone in the Gardai is being blatantly corrupt in full public view and even worse the senior Gardai appear to condone that as a valid organisational public statement. They must be one of the last public bodies in Europe to be using 'we lost the bit a paper' caper as some kind of cover for either incompetence or corruption.
 

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