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Gay Marriage Coming to the UK


livingstone

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Mar 3, 2004
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24,348
BBC News - Gay marriage: Boris Johnson and Michael Gove give backing

This isn't news as such (we've known of Cameron's support for the past couple of years), but new developments in advance of Tuesday's consultation response suggest that, despite some Conservative backbenchers rebelling on the issue, Cameron has the backing of his main rivals, meaning that we're unlikely to see any buckling on the issue.

The fact that Johnson and Gove are both out in support of gay marriage means that there is unlikely to be a single, high-profile opponent of gay marriage proposals which the Government are due to launch on Thursday. Gove, in particular, is significant. There had been speculation of Gove posturing as an heir to Cameron by appealing to Tory traditionalists - it seems that, at least on this issue, Cameron can count on a pretty united Cabinet lacking in any high profile leader of the rebels.

That - combined with support from both Labour and the Lib Dems - means that the UK looks very likely to have introduced gay marriage by 2015.

IMO this will hasten the introduction of gay marriage in Ireland - although the principle in Zappone has been decided (for now) and there is (for now) no compulsion on the part of the Government to recognise foreign marriages, up until now, foreign gay marriages will have been quite rare. Once its legal in the UK, however, then it becomes difficult to see how long a situation can last where someone getting married in Derry won't have that marriage recognised in Donegal.


EDIT: The Consultation Response will be issued today (Tuesday) not Thursday. A Statement to the Commons will be made at 12.30
 
Last edited:

Kev408

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Feb 26, 2006
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About time too. Everyone deserves to be happy.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Katherine Zappone's stance on this disturbs me a bit. She seems to be hoping that the Supreme Court will effectively find that gay marriage is constitutional, and therefore it would be "legalised" in that route, without the express support of the people.

I am 100% in support of same sex marriage, but I think it would be very, very damaging if it was introduced this way. The people need to support it at the ballot box either directly, or by electing a Government which has specifically sought a mandate to legislate for it. The current Government does not have any such mandate, since Fine Gael were silent on gay marriage in the run-up to the 2011 election.
 

Sync

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John Majors come out in favour of it as well. The idea that they'll legislate to allow full church ceremony but allow churches total control over allowing it or not pretty much removes any real argument against it. Public opinions solidly in favour of it.
 

NYCKY

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Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,098
BBC News - Gay marriage: Boris Johnson and Michael Gove give backing

This isn't news as such (we've known of Cameron's support for the past couple of years), but new developments in advance of Thursday's consultation response suggest that, despite some Conservative backbenchers rebelling on the issue, Cameron has the backing of his main rivals, meaning that we're unlikely to see any buckling on the issue.

The fact that Johnson and Gove are both out in support of gay marriage means that there is unlikely to be a single, high-profile opponent of gay marriage proposals which the Government are due to launch on Thursday. Gove, in particular, is significant. There had been speculation of Gove posturing as an heir to Cameron by appealing to Tory traditionalists - it seems that, at least on this issue, Cameron can count on a pretty united Cabinet lacking in any high profile leader of the rebels.

That - combined with support from both Labour and the Lib Dems - means that the UK looks very likely to have introduced gay marriage by 2015.

IMO this will hasten the introduction of gay marriage in Ireland - although the principle in Zappone has been decided (for now) and there is (for now) no compulsion on the part of the Government to recognise foreign marriages, up until now, foreign gay marriages will have been quite rare. Once its legal in the UK, however, then it becomes difficult to see how long a situation can last where someone getting married in Derry won't have that marriage recognised in Donegal.

Pardon my ignorance but what is the Zappone principle?
 

potholedogger

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Why can the law nor simply allow any given number of individuals to marry each other as they see fit?
 

statsman

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Feb 25, 2011
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56,230
Katherine Zappone's stance on this disturbs me a bit. She seems to be hoping that the Supreme Court will effectively find that gay marriage is constitutional, and therefore it would be "legalised" in that route, without the express support of the people.

I am 100% in support of same sex marriage, but I think it would be very, very damaging if it was introduced this way. The people need to support it at the ballot box either directly, or by electing a Government which has specifically sought a mandate to legislate for it. The current Government does not have any such mandate, since Fine Gael were silent on gay marriage in the run-up to the 2011 election.
Did Cameron ask for a mandate in the last UK GE? Genuine question, I don't know.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Did Cameron ask for a mandate in the last UK GE? Genuine question, I don't know.
No he didn't. And that's why I think there is a very strong case for it to be opposed by Tory MPs.

That said, a majority of MPs are in favour of it (Labour plus Liberals plus a big section of the Tories) but I just don't think that the current Government received a mandate to legislate for it.

In order for it to be introduced and to gain solid public support, it needs to be seen to have been supported by the people, and not forced on them by liberal Tories (in the UK) or the Supreme Court here (as Zappone wants)
 

statsman

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No he didn't. And that's why I think there is a very strong case for it to be opposed by Tory MPs.

That said, a majority of MPs are in favour of it (Labour plus Liberals plus a big section of the Tories) but I just don't think that the current Government received a mandate to legislate for it.

In order for it to be introduced and to gain solid public support, it needs to be seen to have been supported by the people, and not forced on them by liberal Tories (in the UK) or the Supreme Court here (as Zappone wants)
Did anyone ask us about straight marriage before it was introduced?
 

ScreeOrTalus

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Nov 23, 2011
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Should be interesting - according to those opposed to gay marriage the UK will implode once these marriages take place. If it doesn't .......
A society that allows "gay" "marriage" is already far gone.

It's a symptom of civilizational exhaustion and liberal inertia.
 

livingstone

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Pardon my ignorance but what is the Zappone principle?
Zappone and Gilligan got married in Canada and sought recognition of their marriage in Ireland - their claim is that the failure to recognise their marriage is a breach of their Constitutional rights. They've not been successful in that claim but I believe the case is ongoing.

But I think the issue is that if people can get married on one side of the border, it will raise pressure to allow marriage - or at least recognise it - in Ireland. Even if the Government isn't constitutionally compelled to recognise it, I think it becomes very difficult for gay marriage to remain unavailable in Ireland.
 

kimari

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Jan 16, 2011
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Twitter
dont like it
i wonder if blokesbloke is going to beome a healey rae or a gallagher:confused:
 

livingstone

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Mar 3, 2004
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No he didn't. And that's why I think there is a very strong case for it to be opposed by Tory MPs.

That said, a majority of MPs are in favour of it (Labour plus Liberals plus a big section of the Tories) but I just don't think that the current Government received a mandate to legislate for it.

In order for it to be introduced and to gain solid public support, it needs to be seen to have been supported by the people, and not forced on them by liberal Tories (in the UK) or the Supreme Court here (as Zappone wants)

It's already been announced as a free vote. But ultimately Parliament's job is to legislate. A clear majority of votes in the last UK GE went to parties that would be considered generally supportive of gay marriage (I can't remember if it was in their manifestos, but I can't believe anyone voted Labour and Lib Dem thinking that they would fight against marriage equality).

As for 'liberal Tories' - I'd hardly call Michael Gove a 'liberal Tory'. And there is not a shred of evidence that this is being forced on an unwilling public - every indication is that the public are fully supportive of marriage equality in the UK.
 
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