Gay Men - Progress, Technology and Disease - Unidirectional or Likely to Reverse

Ulpian

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The past 40 years has witnessed, at least in "the West", gay liberation and gay equality.

However, my thesis is that this change has been driven by a number of things:

- Sexual liberalisation generally, e.g. if the norm in straight sex is considered pleasure/partnering rather than procreation, gay sex doesn't seem that different

- Increasing lack of sexual opportunities for certain males; in my experience there are a lot more facultative gay men than most people realise. Less than averagely masculine males can be classified as gay during their teenage years. Oddly enough some of them then become gay. Certain subgroups of males have less pulling power, e.g. Asian males in Western societies (still something that is taboo in media discussions, even when statistics show it and suicide notes refer to it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/2vgk8s/british_food_blogger_commits_suicide_cites_dating/). Changes in straight sexual mores mean that some men (the 10% most desirable - the alpha males) get more of the action. Others less so, and the 20% least desirable very little. This happened so much in Ireland because sexual mores are much more established but I witness it every day in London.

- Medical developments - condoms and antibiotics. Yes, condoms have existed for centuries, but quality/price/availability is better now than it has ever been. Antibiotics also mean that most STDs (not HIV) can be cured relatively easily, painlessly and inexpensively. Is this an issue for straights - not so much. Look at the HIV statistics for Ireland published every year - despite what we are told by health information campaigns straight unprotected sex with an Irish non-prostitute, non-African origin non-drug user is less likely to result in you contracting HIV than you are to be struck by lightning. However, it is an issue for gays. Penis in vagina is simply much less risky than penis in anus. And yes, some straights have anal sex too, but only a fraction compared with gay men, and the studies show that, even more than vaginal sex, straight anal sex occurs in monogamous long-term relationships.

Antibiotic resistance is increasing and it is clear that, absent some new technology, over the next hundred years we are going to lose a lot of the benefit of antibiotics. As antibiotics start to become less useful protective measures to avoid infection will increase. There will be a push to close transmission routes, including gay sex, particularly as the antibiotic resistant strains of venereal diseases have, to date, all been found in gay men (Drug-resistant Shigella on the rise in gay men | CIDRAP). My sister is a doctor and she says that two thirds of the hepatitis patients whom she sees are gay men, many of whom do chemsex and have unprotected sex with multiple partners whom they hardly know. She is angry that children are losing out in treatment times because the same gay men are being treated multiple times. She is also angry that constant antibiotic use by gay men is leading to antibiotic resistant strains. As budgets become strained her hospital is considering refusing to treat patients who present on a second or subsequent occasion in any five year period.

Right now gay men are a protected class in much of the West. They can do no wrong. However, I predict a backlash against then starting within the next 20 years. Thoughts?
 


mr. jings

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There will alway be a possibilty of reactionary backlash when progress is made. There are always people gagging to drag race, religion, sexuality and women's rights back to the dark ages. They feel cheated and threatened and violated by equality. It is a grave error to rest on our laurels and let them out of their box.
 

GDPR

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There will alway be a possibilty of reactionary backlash when progress is made. There are always people gagging to drag race, religion, sexuality and women's rights back to the dark ages. They feel cheated and threatened and violated by equality. It is a grave error to rest on our laurels and let them out of their box.
When your case is a good one you don't need to fear anyone, in or out of their box.

On the OP, yes things do tend to go too far, they always do on pent up release, but they swing back and eventually settle down to their natural level.
The break on them going really too far is a product of their own forward movement, they over reach and get put back, then the settling starts, nothing to worry or get upset about, the world as we know it will not end, everything will find its natural place in time.
 
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Dame_Enda

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No I don't predict a "backlash" in the West, because increasingly the bedroom is seen as a private matter, partly because of the welcome decline of organised religion, and also the growth of liberal congregations especially the Lutherans.
 

'orebel

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The past 40 years has witnessed, at least in "the West", gay liberation and gay equality.

However, my thesis is that this change has been driven by a number of things:

- Sexual liberalisation generally, e.g. if the norm in straight sex is considered pleasure/partnering rather than procreation, gay sex doesn't seem that different

- Increasing lack of sexual opportunities for certain males; in my experience there are a lot more facultative gay men than most people realise. Less than averagely masculine males can be classified as gay during their teenage years. Oddly enough some of them then become gay. Certain subgroups of males have less pulling power, e.g. Asian males in Western societies (still something that is taboo in media discussions, even when statistics show it and suicide notes refer to it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/2vgk8s/british_food_blogger_commits_suicide_cites_dating/). Changes in straight sexual mores mean that some men (the 10% most desirable - the alpha males) get more of the action. Others less so, and the 20% least desirable very little. This happened so much in Ireland because sexual mores are much more established but I witness it every day in London.

- Medical developments - condoms and antibiotics. Yes, condoms have existed for centuries, but quality/price/availability is better now than it has ever been. Antibiotics also mean that most STDs (not HIV) can be cured relatively easily, painlessly and inexpensively. Is this an issue for straights - not so much. Look at the HIV statistics for Ireland published every year - despite what we are told by health information campaigns straight unprotected sex with an Irish non-prostitute, non-African origin non-drug user is less likely to result in you contracting HIV than you are to be struck by lightning. However, it is an issue for gays. Penis in vagina is simply much less risky than penis in anus. And yes, some straights have anal sex too, but only a fraction compared with gay men, and the studies show that, even more than vaginal sex, straight anal sex occurs in monogamous long-term relationships.

Antibiotic resistance is increasing and it is clear that, absent some new technology, over the next hundred years we are going to lose a lot of the benefit of antibiotics. As antibiotics start to become less useful protective measures to avoid infection will increase. There will be a push to close transmission routes, including gay sex, particularly as the antibiotic resistant strains of venereal diseases have, to date, all been found in gay men (Drug-resistant Shigella on the rise in gay men | CIDRAP). My sister is a doctor and she says that two thirds of the hepatitis patients whom she sees are gay men, many of whom do chemsex and have unprotected sex with multiple partners whom they hardly know. She is angry that children are losing out in treatment times because the same gay men are being treated multiple times. She is also angry that constant antibiotic use by gay men is leading to antibiotic resistant strains. As budgets become strained her hospital is considering refusing to treat patients who present on a second or subsequent occasion in any five year period.

Right now gay men are a protected class in much of the West. They can do no wrong. However, I predict a backlash against then starting within the next 20 years. Thoughts?
Are gay men the main cause behind antibiotic resistance?

What country does your sister practice in?
 

parentheses

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Very interesting OP.

So you're saying some men become gay because they are not attractive/masculine enough to attract women?
 

GDPR

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No I don't predict a "backlash" in the West, because increasingly the bedroom is seen as a private matter, partly because of the welcome decline of organised religion, and also the growth of liberal congregations especially the Lutherans.
Where are Liberal Protestant congregations growing? Would not the majority of Lutherans in Ireland be either Polish or Baltic and so pretty Conservative? There is a Russian Lutheran on this forum who would be considered Liberal by global standards, maybe even very, but by mainstream Southern Irish ones he would be seen as a Conservative.
 

Dame_Enda

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Very interesting OP.

So you're saying some men become gay because they are not attractive/masculine enough to attract women?
Its just absurd. Men are more choosy than women when looking for a partner. So the concept that someone would become gay for that reason is completely ridiculous. Why do you think straight women go to such lengths to lose weight compared to straight men?
 

Congalltee

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Not all gay men are slappers. A majority of gay men are not sluts. A large minority of gay men are not gigilos.
Most people get that.
A majority of people understand that gay men are more than sexual experiences (hence the marriage vote).
Straight people tend not to think too much about gay men having sex. Closest cases, however...
 
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talkingshop

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No I don't predict a "backlash" in the West, because increasingly the bedroom is seen as a private matter, partly because of the welcome decline of organised religion, and also the growth of liberal congregations especially the Lutherans.
Bedroom private affair is grand.

It does annoy me though if it is true that some gay men are consuming a disproportionate part of the health budget due to hepatitis, HIV, etc.- the poster referred to children having longer waiting times. That's not fair to others.
 

stopdoingstuff

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There will be a massive backlash against gays in the West, and it will be caused by all the homophobic Muslims all the gay rights campaigners want to import. Delicious irony.
 

Dame_Enda

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Bedroom private affair is grand.

It does annoy me though if it is true that some gay men are consuming a disproportionate part of the health budget due to hepatitis, HIV, etc.- the poster referred to children having longer waiting times. That's not fair to others.
Show me your statistics on the health budget for HIV. Around half such cases are foreign nationals usually from Sub Saharan Africa. Globally most HIV cases are in Africa, where homosexuality is illegal almost everywhere.
 

gerhard dengler

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Not all gay men are slappers. A majority of gay men are not sluts. A large minority of gay men are gigilos.
Most people get that.
A majority of people understand that gay men are more than sexual experiences (hence the marriage vote).
Data suggests that promiscuity levels among homosexuals is far higher than those among heterosexual people.
 


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