GE 2020 - countdown

ainm_eile

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Why would there be the basis for a court case to delay the election? Surely its the Taoiseach's choice when an election is called rather than a judge's? The UK had no end of grief over their fixed term parliament act - would every election date be subject to appeal if the courts get involved?
The High Court could rule that so many people would be egregiously denied their right to vote that an election held before the register is updated would be void. Let's be honest, it's looks very dodgy not to just delay dissolving the Dail for a week.
 


artfoley56

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The High Court could rule that so many people would be egregiously denied their right to vote that an election held before the register is updated would be void. Let's be honest, it's looks very dodgy not to just delay dissolving the Dail for a week.
maybe miggledy would get on his high horse about the disenfranchisement and refuse to dissolve the dail :D
 

Baron von Biffo

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The High Court could rule that so many people would be egregiously denied their right to vote that an election held before the register is updated would be void. Let's be honest, it's looks very dodgy not to just delay dissolving the Dail for a week.
No it couldn't.

The court can't just pull judgements out of its arse, there has to be a legal basis.
 

wombat

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Not impulsiveness but realpolitik. He no longer has the numbers to continue so he's called the GE before the opposition can score a Dail victory.
It also saves Martin any embarrassment from McGuinness' playacting
 

Baron von Biffo

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maybe miggledy would get on his high horse about the disenfranchisement and refuse to dissolve the dail :D
Fortunately we elected the only one of the candidates who understood the constitutional powers and limits of the office.

Higgins knows that he can't refuse a dissolution to a Taoiseach who hasn't lost the confidence of Dail Eireann.
 

rockofcashel

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No it couldn't.

The court can't just pull judgements out of its arse, there has to be a legal basis.
The legal basis is this:

The 4th Amendment of the Irish Constitution gave people who've attained 18 years of age, the right to vote.

This constitutional right cannot be denied, on the basis of an administrative decision ie to wait 4 months between compiling a register, and enacting it.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who turned 18 since last February, should be denied their right to vote, because Leo wants the have an election a week before the new register becomes official?
 

artfoley56

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Higgins knows that he can't refuse a dissolution to a Taoiseach who hasn't lost the confidence of Dail Eireann.
im not sure the numbers would back up that assertion and leo is going now because he knows that harris is a sitting duck for the MONC
 

rockofcashel

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Marian Harkin announces shes running in Sligo Leitrim..

FF or SF likely to lose a seat if she wins...

Shes talking up the likely impact of Independents after the election

I could honestly see an absolute pile of Indos elected this time
 

HenryHorace

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So depressing the selection of candidates. If only someone would step forward and look after the Irish first and foremost. there are some fantastic options in Europe if you are a nationalist and yet here every single political party is massively open borders.
 

Baron von Biffo

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The legal basis is this:

The 4th Amendment of the Irish Constitution gave people who've attained 18 years of age, the right to vote.

This constitutional right cannot be denied, on the basis of an administrative decision ie to wait 4 months between compiling a register, and enacting it.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who turned 18 since last February, should be denied their right to vote, because Leo wants the have an election a week before the new register becomes official?
Art 16.1.2:-

" (i) All citizens, and

(ii) such other persons in the state as may be
determined by law,

without distinction of sex who have reached the
age of eighteen years who are not disqualified by
law and comply with the provisions of the law

relating to the election of members of Dáil
Éireann, shall have the right to vote at an election
for members of Dáil Éireann."(My emphasis)


The provisions of the law relating to the election of members of Dail Eireann include being on the electoral register.

There's nothing in the constitution that requires the government to maintain the register such that everyone whose 18th birthday falls on or before polling day must be included on it.
 

wombat

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Are you seriously suggesting that people who turned 18 since last February, should be denied their right to vote, because Leo wants the have an election a week before the new register becomes official?
Where do you draw the line on the new register? a week, a month, 6 months? there will always be someone disenfranchised.
 

Baron von Biffo

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im not sure the numbers would back up that assertion and leo is going now because he knows that harris is a sitting duck for the MONC
There's no doubt he no longer has the numbers but he's not yet been defeated in a confidence motion.

Now the constitution is silent on the question of how the president may determine if a Taoiseach has lost the confidence of Dail Eireann but even if Varadkar had formally lost a confidence motion, why would Higgins provoke a crisis by denying him a dissolution?
 

artfoley56

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There's no doubt he no longer has the numbers but he's not yet been defeated in a confidence motion.

Now the constitution is silent on the question of how the president may determine if a Taoiseach has lost the confidence of Dail Eireann but even if Varadkar had formally lost a confidence motion, why would Higgins provoke a crisis by denying him a dissolution?
i think the smiley in my original post has bypassed you but, i was postulating that given that miggledy is such a champion of hum rights would he not step in to stop FG disenfranchising thousands. itll never happen, but just another example that miggledy says one thing but does another
 

Disillusioned democrat

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i think the smiley in my original post has bypassed you but, i was postulating that given that miggledy is such a champion of hum rights would he not step in to stop FG disenfranchising thousands. itll never happen, but just another example that miggledy says one thing but does another
You could pretty much bank on him having an opinion if something like this was happening somewhere else - oh, the injustice!!!!
 

rockofcashel

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Where do you draw the line on the new register? a week, a month, 6 months? there will always be someone disenfranchised.
The line is drawn at 15 working days prior to an election, which is the last date that a person can get onto a Supplementary Register

However, this isn't the Supplementary Register that we are talking about. It is the draft version of the full register, which has been completed and is with every county council area since last November. Simply awaiting rubber stamping, and being made the official register on the 15th of February

People don't seem to get this. Already a few lads in work have said to me "people had loads of time to register, if they didn't by now, it is their own fault"

But these people in most cases, did register. They contacted county councils, filled out forms, and added themselves to the draft register, awaiting that to be made official the following February

By calling the election before that draft register, becomes the official register, someone who filled in a registration form, between Feb 2019 and Nov 2019 (or even between Nov and Jan), will not be on the official register being used.. which will be the one that was in place in Feb 19..

Which means these people are being denied their constitutional right to vote.

Do you still not get that?
 

rockofcashel

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Art 16.1.2:-

" (i) All citizens, and

(ii) such other persons in the state as may be
determined by law,

without distinction of sex who have reached the
age of eighteen years who are not disqualified by
law and comply with the provisions of the law

relating to the election of members of Dáil
Éireann, shall have the right to vote at an election
for members of Dáil Éireann."(My emphasis)


The provisions of the law relating to the election of members of Dail Eireann include being on the electoral register.

There's nothing in the constitution that requires the government to maintain the register such that everyone whose 18th birthday falls on or before polling day must be included on it.
I'd absolutely love to see the Government send in barristers to try to argue that they have no obligation to ensure that perhaps 20-30,000 voters shouldn't be entitled to vote, just because they take 4 months to turn a draft register into an official register

How do you think that would go down, mid campaign?
 

artfoley56

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