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Genuine Right Wing Republican/Nationalist Party Necessary(in NI) to stimulate debate


blinding

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There is a need for the emergence of a right wing Republican/Nationalist party to emerge in Northern Ireland.

It is necessary to engage the established Republican/Nationalist parties in debate on economic, social and cultural issues.
The emergence of such a party would stop the existing parties from being all things to all people.
The existing parties could not have the same policies as the right wing party and still claim its left wing credentials. The existing parties could no longer perch on the fence on the many issues that they do.
In essence we need the contrast to see what our parties actually do stand for.

It would also be advantageous to the cause of Irish Nationalism/Republicanism(right wing?) if a party of the right was putting forth convincing arguments for the unification of the Island. This party would have a hard road to travel but it seems to me that its emergence is the only way to clarify what the existing parties actually believe in.
 


Panopticon

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Northern politics is "uni-axial". There is no "political compass". Unionists tend strongly to align with "right-wing" politics and nationalists tend to align strongly with "left-wing" politics. Given that nationalists are the minority, it's hard to see what kind of political space the proposed party would occupy.
 

bogtrotter

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There is a need for the emergence of a right wing Republican/Nationalist party to emerge in Northern Ireland.

It is necessary to engage the established Republican/Nationalist parties in debate on economic, social and cultural issues.
The emergence of such a party would stop the existing parties from being all things to all people.
The existing parties could not have the same policies as the right wing party and still claim its left wing credentials. The existing parties could no longer perch on the fence on the many issues that they do.
In essence we need the contrast to see what our parties actually do stand for.

It would also be advantageous to the cause of Irish Nationalism/Republicanism(right wing?) if a party of the right was putting forth convincing arguments for the unification of the Island. This party would have a hard road to travel but it seems to me that its emergence is the only way to clarify what the existing parties actually believe in.
Enter FF or FG....
 

Young Ned

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Enter FF or FG....
Presumably the problem is that they aren't nationalist enough. Also, while they are (FG, esp) to the right of SF, do you really think either one of those parties qualifies as 'right wing'?
 

blinding

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Presumably the problem is that they aren't nationalist enough. Also, while they are (FG, esp) to the right of SF, do you really think either one of those parties qualifies as 'right wing'?
They certainly are lip-service national/republican parties at best.

They are also parties that try to be all things to all people.

So many of our political parties are like this that there is no genunine debate between them.
 

ArtyQueing

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A relative of mine is very active in promoting FF in the occupied territories and he seems to be very hopeful saying that there are a number of grassroots developments in progress and they should be bearing good fruit shortly, although to be fair he says that the party has been concentrating on the global recession lately and this has slowed down the project a bit as attention and resources have been understandably diverted, but nonetheless things are continuously moving forward with local people taking charge backed up by Dublin where appropriate.

There is room for a less left wing nationallist party than SF, (SDLP is now not worth discussing), as the left wing lurch of that party since the hunger strike and the resulting centralism based around connolly house has alienated many - especially in the rural areas. Why do they still vote for SF? - the answer is loyalty to the greater picture.

I urge all who wish to join Fianna Fail in the occupied terriories to get in toouch and I will forward their details to the cousin.
 

blinding

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Perhaps FF/FG could add to the debate but they have zero credentials on the unification question.

Both of these parties manage to pull off that trick of being all things to all people.

Ideally a right of centre Nationalist/Republican party will emerge that is willing to show what they stand for on social, cultural and economic issues.
This party can put forward credible reasons why Unity of the Island is advantageous from a right of centre political perspective.

It is with the emergence of such a party that the nationalist/republican aspiration for unity will have matured to the stage where it will be at the centre of our political agenda.

It is only with the emergence of such a party that we will force the other parties to show us with clarity what their policies are.

Due to the lack of a political oponent the existing parties are resting on their laurels.

Political parties like many things in life need competition to keep them on their toes.
 

ArtyQueing

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Perhaps FF/FG could add to the debate but they have zero credentials on the unification question.

Both of these parties manage to pull off that trick of being all things to all people.

Ideally a right of centre Nationalist/Republican party will emerge that is willing to show what they stand for on social, cultural and economic issues.
This party can put forward credible reasons why Unity of the Island is advantageous from a right of centre political perspective.

It is with the emergence of such a party that the nationalist/republican aspiration for unity will have matured to the stage where it will be at the centre of our political agenda.

It is only with the emergence of such a party that we will force the other parties to show us with clarity what their policies are.

Due to the lack of a political oponent the existing parties are resting on their laurels.

Political parties like many things in life need competition to keep them on their toes.
I agree tha there is a lot of hot air expressed about reunification by members of FF and FG. There is no doubt of that and a bit of wrapping the green flag around me has never done any harm at the hustings however that changes when you have cumann established throughout the country. It changes everything entirely as it means that the balance of power within the party changes, the party cannot adopt a policy of what is good for 26 counties but will be forced into a 32 county mentality, and, what is more fun, it means that the unionists have to engage and cooperate with a true all-Ireland party with an all-Ireland agenda. SF cannot do this as it simply does not have enough strength throughout the nation although this may change. Now when you start to think the effect that a party sitting in Stormont that has the power of veto over all legislative and administrative measures enacted their which is against the interests of all of Ireland you have a new reality which divisionism will have great difficulty with as it means the raison d-etre for the border is defunct.

To be honest their is no room for a new party, the IIP were wiped out when SF took to the field and I have been told that McGeough was actively interested in starting a party but it did not materialise, (possibly due to his outrageous arrest by the enemy), the best way forward is for all parties who wish to be true national organisations to organise throughout the nation and stop being provincials.
 

blinding

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I agree tha there is a lot of hot air expressed about reunification by members of FF and FG. There is no doubt of that and a bit of wrapping the green flag around me has never done any harm at the hustings however that changes when you have cumann established throughout the country. It changes everything entirely as it means that the balance of power within the party changes, the party cannot adopt a policy of what is good for 26 counties but will be forced into a 32 county mentality, and, what is more fun, it means that the unionists have to engage and cooperate with a true all-Ireland party with an all-Ireland agenda. SF cannot do this as it simply does not have enough strength throughout the nation although this may change. Now when you start to think the effect that a party sitting in Stormont that has the power of veto over all legislative and administrative measures enacted their which is against the interests of all of Ireland you have a new reality which divisionism will have great difficulty with as it means the raison d-etre for the border is defunct.

To be honest their is no room for a new party, the IIP were wiped out when SF took to the field and I have been told that McGeough was actively interested in starting a party but it did not materialise, (possibly due to his outrageous arrest by the enemy), the best way forward is for all parties who wish to be true national organisations to organise throughout the nation and stop being provincials.
FF have been talking about organising in NI for as long as I can remember and it always turns out to be hot air.
FG though supposedly a united Ireland party have done even less(if thats possible) than FFto move towards unity.

Neither of these parties have any credibility with regard to social, economic or cultural issues in NI.

IF they had genuine policies they may be able to stimulate Sinn Féin and the SDLP(if they are still alive) but I am afraid that they are asleep on yet another issue.
"Quelle Surprise"
 

flamez911

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Jun 8, 2008
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Why do nationalists need a third party to split their vote even more? Is there some quota which we're not matching now that Jim Allister has gone and made a third unionist party? Nationalists are mainly left-wing, and anyway, since when have issues other than nationalism/unionism ever had any sway over anyone in the North?
 

lapsedmethodist

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Jun 15, 2008
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`aaahhhhhh blinding light ! What is needed in the North is a rightwing party!
What fu*king planet do you lot live on? And that's not a rhetorical question.

Flatearth DUP'ers! Anti-abortion anti- feminist isolationist SF'ers!

WTF could be more rightwing than the shower- in- power that's there
at the moment!
 

Horace Horse

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There was a third nationalist party in the late 1970s/early 80s. The name was the Irish Independence party, I believe. It was headed by one John Thornley (?). He actually was from the Protestant tradition.

The party had some success as an alternative to SF and SDLP, but was derailed when Thornley was murdered by loyalist vermin.
 

blinding

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Why do nationalists need a third party to split their vote even more? Is there some quota which we're not matching now that Jim Allister has gone and made a third unionist party? Nationalists are mainly left-wing, and anyway, since when have issues other than nationalism/unionism ever had any sway over anyone in the North?
The third party or that political perspective is needed to rouse the other parties from their slumber. It would be advantageous to the aspiration of all Island unity if the case was put from a right wing economic view. The broader the political spectrum that puts forward a credible strategy and makes clear from a right of centre point of view what the benefits of an all Island economy would be.

It is the political friction that is needed. There may be some split in the vote in the short term but is there any need for two parties that are so idealogically similiar in NI as Sinn Fein and the SDLP. It would be much better in the medium to longer term if there were two parties from both sides of the left/right political spectrum putting convincing arguments for unification.

It is up to Sinn Fein and the SDLP to decide where they stand but they cannot stand on the same political patch forever. The third party or right of centre perspective should force this situation to be resolved.
 

blinding

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`aaahhhhhh blinding light ! What is needed in the North is a rightwing party!
What fu*king planet do you lot live on? And that's not a rhetorical question.

Flatearth DUP'ers! Anti-abortion anti- feminist isolationist SF'ers!

WTF could be more rightwing than the shower- in- power that's there
at the moment!
There is much in what you say

But where is there a voice on economic issue for right of centre Republicans/Nationalists.
There is a clear void here and are you saying that there are no Nats/Repubs with right of centre economic convictions.
 

ArtyQueing

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There was a third nationalist party in the late 1970s/early 80s. The name was the Irish Independence party, I believe. It was headed by one John Thornley (?). He actually was from the Protestant tradition.

The party had some success as an alternative to SF and SDLP, but was derailed when Thornley was murdered by loyalist vermin.
John turnly was slaughtered by the divisionists on the bridge in Carnlough, they received their weapons and briefing from the SAS in the Lurig Bar in cushendall.

John was of the Big House tradition, his father being Major Turnly, and he was ralated to the upper echelons of English society, head Tories being his cousin as also were leaders of divisionism here. As a young man he was dispatched to Asia to attend to business there, (he eventually married a japanese), were, seeing how the nations there were exploited by foreign capatilists and occupiers, formed the conclusion that it was in Irelands interests to separate from foreign control aand administer their own affairs.

On return to Ireland this man of conscience joined the SDLP and then left it to be a founder member of the IIP.

For this indiscretion he suffered the ultimate price.

I was a boy when he was around, but I remember him well. He once nearly caught me and the cousin (who many of you FF people know),helping ourselves to his apples in his orchard - I will never forget the plummy English accent saying "What are you doing in my garden", we of course declined to explain our presence and legged it.

He was a great patriot of the Casement mould. It would be good to see him getting some official recognition.

However saying that it is a bit much to say that his assassination was the cause of the decline of the IIP. When SF started to stand for election they put the nail in the IIP's coffin.
 
Last edited:

blinding

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John turnly was slaughtered by the divisionists on the bridge in Carnlough, they received their weapons and briefing from the SAS in the Lurig Bar in cushendall.

John was of the Big House tradition, his father being Major Turnly, and he was ralated to the upper echelons of English society, head Tories being his cousin as also were leaders of divisionism here. As a young man he was dispatched to Asia to attend to business there, (he eventually married a japanese), were, seeing how the nations there were exploited by foreign capatilists and occupiers, formed the conclusion that it was in Irelands interests to separate from foreign control aand administer their own affairs.

On return to Ireland this man of conscience joined the SDLP and then left it to be a founder member of the IIP.

For this discretion he suffered the ultimate price.

I was a boy when he was around, but I remember him well. He once nearly caught me and the cousin (who many of you FF people know),helping ourselves to his apples in his orchard - I will never forget the plummy English accent saying "What are you doing in my garden", we of course declined to explain our presence and legged it.

He was a great patriot of the Casement mould. It would be good to see him getting some official recognition.

However saying that it is a bit much to say that his assassination was the cause of the decline of the IIP. When SF started to stand for election they put the nail in the IIP's coffin.
Interesting information about the IIP and thanks for posting it.

Were they to the right of centre on economic policy or did that even come into it in that very polarised time.
 

ArtyQueing

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Interesting information about the IIP and thanks for posting it.

Were they to the right of centre on economic policy or did that even come into it in that very polarised time.
To be honest I was too young to remember that detail - although I would expect them to be right of centre given the people at its helm.

If DrMcDonnell was on this site he could answer as he knew the man better than I.
 

DonegalDanny

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If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain.

England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.

England would still rule you to your ruin, even while your lips offered hypocritical homage at the shrine of that Freedom whose cause you had betrayed.

Nationalism without Socialism – without a reorganisation of society on the basis of a broader and more developed form of that common property which underlay the social structure of Ancient Erin - is only national recreancy.

It would be tantamount to a public declaration that our oppressors had so far succeeded in inoculating us with their perverted conceptions of justice and morality that we had finally decided to accept those conceptions as our own, and no longer needed an alien army to force them upon us.

As a Socialist I am prepared to do all one man can do to achieve for our motherland her rightful heritage – independence; but if you ask me to abate one jot or tittle of the claims of social justice, in order to conciliate the privileged classes, then I must decline.

Such action would be neither honourable nor feasible. Let us never forget that he never reaches Heaven who marches thither in the company of the Devil. Let us openly proclaim our faith: the logic of events is with us.
 

Horace Horse

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John turnly was slaughtered by the divisionists on the bridge in Carnlough, they received their weapons and briefing from the SAS in the Lurig Bar in cushendall.

John was of the Big House tradition, his father being Major Turnly, and he was ralated to the upper echelons of English society, head Tories being his cousin as also were leaders of divisionism here. As a young man he was dispatched to Asia to attend to business there, (he eventually married a japanese), were, seeing how the nations there were exploited by foreign capatilists and occupiers, formed the conclusion that it was in Irelands interests to separate from foreign control aand administer their own affairs.

On return to Ireland this man of conscience joined the SDLP and then left it to be a founder member of the IIP.

For this indiscretion he suffered the ultimate price.

I was a boy when he was around, but I remember him well. He once nearly caught me and the cousin (who many of you FF people know),helping ourselves to his apples in his orchard - I will never forget the plummy English accent saying "What are you doing in my garden", we of course declined to explain our presence and legged it.

He was a great patriot of the Casement mould. It would be good to see him getting some official recognition.

However saying that it is a bit much to say that his assassination was the cause of the decline of the IIP. When SF started to stand for election they put the nail in the IIP's coffin.
Thank you for this tribute to a man who has been undeservedly forgotten. I concur with you that he should be remembered. Is there any monument to him in North Antrim?

I have the impression that the IIP was rural-based rather than urban. Nevertheless, had Turnley lived I don't see why it could not have prospered. There was a lot of support for non-Sinn Fein republicanism. People like Frank McManus and Frank maguire in Fermanagh, they never joined SF.

And, as history has shown, weren't they right?
 

ArtyQueing

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Thank you for this tribute to a man who has been undeservedly forgotten. I concur with you that he should be remembered. Is there any monument to him in North Antrim?

I have the impression that the IIP was rural-based rather than urban. Nevertheless, had Turnley lived I don't see why it could not have prospered. There was a lot of support for non-Sinn Fein republicanism. People like Frank McManus and Frank maguire in Fermanagh, they never joined SF.

And, as history has shown, weren't they right?
It is a complete disgrace that there is not - but it would not get planning permission anyway. The fact is that the IIP was wiped out by SF - the people wanted what SF had to offer.
 

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