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German finance minister in Dublin, repeats that a debt deal is a go but pushes us for a plan


Sync

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Aug 27, 2009
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28,845
God this is boring at this point: Pressure on Noonan to devise 'unique' debt plan - National News - Independent.ie

THE Government has been told it will get a one-off bank debt deal -- but has to come up with a way to show our case is unique in the EU.

Hardline German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble signalled his government was positively disposed towards Ireland getting relief on our crippling debt burden.

But the Government, and particularly Finance Minister Michael Noonan, has to devise a way to get the money so that other countries can't use our case as a precedent.

The economy got another major vote of confidence when Mr Schaeuble insisted the country won't need a second bailout -- and will get a bank debt deal.
Now that's reasonable enough tbh. We're the one asking for the variance, we're the one that should come up with the supporting, documented plan. Except....this is EU politics involving Ireland's politicians. Are we really able to come up with a comprehensive business plan that takes into account financial impact, implications of creating a possible precedent and the legal/constitutional ramifications of this? Have we ever come up with something like this in the past?

Or will we just keep people shuttling over to Germany and back to hear nice things?

The man in question stated:

"We know it's a very specific situation in Ireland, Ireland is a special case, the Eurogroup will continue to take this into account.

On the other hand, we agree we have to avoid any announcement which could be misunderstood in a way that everyone in the world is thinking the actual programme for Ireland does not work well, because it works well, and that is the most important thing. I am totally confident that Ireland is on track.

The country, despite facing great adversity, continues to make progress on fiscal reform, and is increasingly getting recognition as a model for other countries."
Time to go out of house to get this done. Hire a third party in (I know people won't like it, but we're talking about one of the big 4 most likely) to put a comprehensive plan together which will A: Give the Germans the cover they evidently want to give us the deal while B: Provide cover against other countries citing us as precedent.
 

Clanrickard

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33,032
If legacy debt is a national problem why don't Schoolteacher Noonan and Schoolteacher Kenny not just say that we will with it as we see fit. Schauble can't have it every way dictating to Ireland what we can and cannot do and then saying it is a national issue.
 

tigerben

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4,621
It looks like some creative accountant has to come up with a plan, but seen as the department of finance statements, and fantasy budgeting, and failure to see or do anything to dampen spending during the boom , I'm sure they can come up with a fairy tale story that no other country could believe.
 

jakersno

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Feb 4, 2011
Messages
87
I`had a slight problem about this German buckeen landing in on our October Bank Holiday weekend, when we usually let our hair down a bit. Then I called to mind that we`re not too slow at imposing our own National Holiday on anyone that`ll have us.
So, memo to self; Stop digging.
 

Radix

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If legacy debt is a national problem why don't Schoolteacher Noonan and Schoolteacher Kenny not just say that we will with it as we see fit. Schauble can't have it every way dictating to Ireland what we can and cannot do and then saying it is a national issue.
It iz ein issue vor Germany, ven ze Irish can not afford to buy ze German goods!
 

Volatire

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13,383
Time to go out of house to get this done. Hire a third party in (I know people won't like it, but we're talking about one of the big 4 most likely) to put a comprehensive plan together which will A: Give the Germans the cover they evidently want to give us the deal while B: Provide cover against other countries citing us as precedent.
The notion that ex-school teachers and semi-literates financiers from DoF are the best people to close this deal is a sick joke on the Irish people. Goldman Sachs should be hired to conduct the renegotiation of the bank legacy debt on our behalf. They can be offered a % of the real NPV gain to the Irish taxpayer of the deal ( e.g. 2%). Many of the main players in European finance are ex-GS. They are listened to and respected where it counts.

We need the best financial deal that can possibly be extracted from europe. Kenny and Noonan's diplomacy has created a window of opportunity to achieve real financial gain for Ireland. It is now time for them to step back, forget about vanity and face-saving non-sense and do something of tangible benefit for their country.
 

SilverSpurs

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5,550
God this is boring at this point: Pressure on Noonan to devise 'unique' debt plan - National News - Independent.ie



Now that's reasonable enough tbh. We're the one asking for the variance, we're the one that should come up with the supporting, documented plan. Except....this is EU politics involving Ireland's politicians. Are we really able to come up with a comprehensive business plan that takes into account financial impact, implications of creating a possible precedent and the legal/constitutional ramifications of this? Have we ever come up with something like this in the past?

Or will we just keep people shuttling over to Germany and back to hear nice things?

The man in question stated:



Time to go out of house to get this done. Hire a third party in (I know people won't like it, but we're talking about one of the big 4 most likely) to put a comprehensive plan together which will A: Give the Germans the cover they evidently want to give us the deal while B: Provide cover against other countries citing us as precedent.
Same old trickery. The nightmare scenario is initially floated so when the bad deal arrives people will be "relieved as it could have been so much worse".
 

statsman

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Feb 25, 2011
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56,230
God this is boring at this point: Pressure on Noonan to devise 'unique' debt plan - National News - Independent.ie



Now that's reasonable enough tbh. We're the one asking for the variance, we're the one that should come up with the supporting, documented plan. Except....this is EU politics involving Ireland's politicians. Are we really able to come up with a comprehensive business plan that takes into account financial impact, implications of creating a possible precedent and the legal/constitutional ramifications of this? Have we ever come up with something like this in the past?

Or will we just keep people shuttling over to Germany and back to hear nice things?

The man in question stated:



Time to go out of house to get this done. Hire a third party in (I know people won't like it, but we're talking about one of the big 4 most likely) to put a comprehensive plan together which will A: Give the Germans the cover they evidently want to give us the deal while B: Provide cover against other countries citing us as precedent.
Sounds like a job for the Troika to me.
 

Eoin Coir

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Jun 16, 2012
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16,632
just saw some figures foreign banks lent us from about 1999 - 2008, shocked me. Belgium 87 billion, France 75.8 billion, Germany 154 billion. Where did it all go, el Celtica Tigra. Who is to blame ?
 

Prester Jim

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Jul 3, 2009
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10,071
If legacy debt is a national problem why don't Schoolteacher Noonan and Schoolteacher Kenny not just say that we will with it as we see fit. Schauble can't have it every way dictating to Ireland what we can and cannot do and then saying it is a national issue.
As stated multiple times previously, they haven't taught for decades, are now career politicians and have been for decades and our previous bunch of lawyers and accountants and accounts clerks got us into this Effing mess, the current "schoolteachers" are doing their best in truly sh1tty circumstances to get us out of it.
What profession do you think should be running the state?
Personally I think that previous profession is an irrelevance, we should choose based on ability as a politician and leader with a special consideration to judgment and ability to find trusted experts, but hey what do I know? I am only an anonymous poster like yourself.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,459
God this is boring at this point: Pressure on Noonan to devise 'unique' debt plan - National News - Independent.ie



Now that's reasonable enough tbh. We're the one asking for the variance, we're the one that should come up with the supporting, documented plan. Except....this is EU politics involving Ireland's politicians. Are we really able to come up with a comprehensive business plan that takes into account financial impact, implications of creating a possible precedent and the legal/constitutional ramifications of this? Have we ever come up with something like this in the past?

Or will we just keep people shuttling over to Germany and back to hear nice things?

The man in question stated:



Time to go out of house to get this done. Hire a third party in (I know people won't like it, but we're talking about one of the big 4 most likely) to put a comprehensive plan together which will A: Give the Germans the cover they evidently want to give us the deal while B: Provide cover against other countries citing us as precedent.
Have you no concerns about the precedent this might set for treating member states unequally? Sure it might get us a few quid off the bank debt, but once that can of worms is opened, we can never cry foul play again.
 

Neutron

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Jan 6, 2012
Messages
3,980
I love the diversity of the European Union and the strong upheld democratic values it holds.

Its nice to see that the Germans decide if we get a bank deal or not, and there I was thinking the money we got was from the EU/IMF/UK.

Did the Greeks have to create a plan to get their multiple debt deals?

One Europe One Reich.
 

Eoin Coir

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Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
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As stated multiple times previously, they haven't taught for decades, are now career politicians and have been for decades and our previous bunch of lawyers and accountants and accounts clerks got us into this Effing mess, the current "schoolteachers" are doing their best in truly sh1tty circumstances to get us out of it.
What profession do you think should be running the state?
Personally I think that previous profession is an irrelevance, we should choose based on ability as a politician and leader with a special consideration to judgment and ability to find trusted experts, but hey what do I know? I am only an anonymous poster like yourself.
Bertie the accountant and LSE graduate, McCreeev the accountant, Biffo genius solicitor and master of his brief, Lenihan learned lawyer - all pumped up by the media.
 

Trainwreck

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Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,809
As stated multiple times previously, they haven't taught for decades, are now career politicians and have been for decades and our previous bunch of lawyers and accountants and accounts clerks got us into this Effing mess, the current "schoolteachers" are doing their best in truly sh1tty circumstances to get us out of it.
What profession do you think should be running the state?
Personally I think that previous profession is an irrelevance, we should choose based on ability as a politician and leader with a special consideration to judgment and ability to find trusted experts, but hey what do I know? I am only an anonymous poster like yourself.
I know from many years experience that people without the requisite training and knowledge in the first place are completely unable to discriminate between a true expert and a spoofer.

What is more, they fool themselves about their level of ignorance and make stupid errors of judgement as a result. How do you thin we got where we are?

Noonan is a particularly dangerously mix of empty shirt with dollops of hubris on financial matters.
 

Howya

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Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
just saw some figures foreign banks lent us from about 1999 - 2008, shocked me. Belgium 87 billion, France 75.8 billion, Germany 154 billion. Where did it all go, el Celtica Tigra. Who is to blame ?
It all went back to those very same banks....that's why the guarantee was extended and further extended
 

Howya

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Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
I love the diversity of the European Union and the strong upheld democratic values it holds.

Its nice to see that the Germans decide if we get a bank deal or not, and there I was thinking the money we got was from the EU/IMF/UK.

Did the Greeks have to create a plan to get their multiple debt deals?

One Europe One Reich.
And Schauble was very careful to say that the debt deal fell under the remit of the ECB....but yet we were sucking up to him. At least Noonan knows who holds the power
 

tirnacrann

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Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
452
I know from many years experience that people without the requisite training and knowledge in the first place are completely unable to discriminate between a true expert and a spoofer.

What is more, they fool themselves about their level of ignorance and make stupid errors of judgement as a result. How do you thin we got where we are?

Noonan is a particularly dangerously mix of empty shirt with dollops of hubris on financial matters.
Do tell us who would the people with '' the requisite training and knowledge '' be in your opinion
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
The notion that ex-school teachers and semi-literates financiers from DoF are the best people to close this deal is a sick joke on the Irish people. Goldman Sachs should be hired to conduct the renegotiation of the bank legacy debt on our behalf. They can be offered a % of the real NPV gain to the Irish taxpayer of the deal ( e.g. 2%). Many of the main players in European finance are ex-GS. They are listened to and respected where it counts.

We need the best financial deal that can possibly be extracted from europe. Kenny and Noonan's diplomacy has created a window of opportunity to achieve real financial gain for Ireland. It is now time for them to step back, forget about vanity and face-saving non-sense and do something of tangible benefit for their country.
Very much agree. There's no shame in outsourcing a one off task to an external expert. It makes total sense. Germany's been pretty up front here. They want to give us the deal, we just have to come up with a narrative that shows us to be unique and not in the same boat as say Spain. So really we need someone to write a project plan which lies competently. We're not so good at the very last bit of that sentence.

Have you no concerns about the precedent this might set for treating member states unequally? Sure it might get us a few quid off the bank debt, but once that can of worms is opened, we can never cry foul play again.
All countries aren't equal. I don't view the roots of Greece's problems or the manner in which they've attempted to resolve them as being equal to us. The origins of troubles and the methods used to address those troubles will always vary from country to country, thus the reaction will need to vary as well.
 

Diawlbach

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Jul 20, 2011
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10,461
So, looks like Ireland IS a special case, just as we said this time last week.

Two chances of those proclaiming, no, bellowing on here that we weren't based on a Torygraph spin on a headline without a direct quote having the good grace to admit they were wrong, of course.
 

Trainwreck

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Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,809
When you understand how contentious the issue of wealth transfer between Germans themselves is, you will begin to understand why we have not and will not be getting any German funded write down in our debt:

Germany
 
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