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German govt knew Erdogan was close to Islamic "terror groups"

McTell

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Oct 16, 2012
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No
So they knew all along? German politicians knew of closer-than-we-were-ever-told ties between Erdogan and Islamic fundamentalists and "terror groups".

Berlin paper links Erdogan to Islamist terror groups

Germany invited 1m mostly-Muslim refugees into the EU last year, without asking our approval, and then tried to guilt-trip the rest of us into taking them.

Then it does a deal with Turkey to house some refugees; then it says that Turkey did genocide those Armenians in 1915; then the July coup against Erdogan failed.


Could we have a new "kanzler" please germany??? Some of your choices in the past century have been really bad, including frau merkel.


"Berlin is braced for the worst after a leaked policy paper described Turkey as a “central platform for Islamist and other terrorist organisations”.

The forthright and critical assessment of Turkish policy came in a written reply from the federal interior ministry to a parliamentary question posed by the opposition Left Party. Though marked confidential, it was leaked to public broadcaster ARD on Tuesday afternoon and is likely to add further cracks to strained Berlin-Ankara relations.

“As result of Ankara’s gradually Islamised domestic and foreign policy since 2011, Turkey has developed into a central action platform for Islamist groups in near and middle east regions,” wrote Ole Schröder, state secretary in the federal interior ministry, according to ARD, in a paper dated August 10th.
“The countless expressions of solidarity and supporting actions of the ruling AKP and President Erdogan for the Egyptian MB [Muslim Brotherhood], Hamas and armed Islamist opposition groups in Syria underline their ideological affinity to their Muslim brothers.”
On the one hand, the paper’s outspoken conclusions merely put in writing what senior German and European officials have admitted for years off the record. But having such a critical assessment in black and white, drawing on information from Germany’s BND foreign intelligence, is likely to spark a strong reaction from Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
It also piles pressure on Chancellor Angela Merkel. Despite growing international criticism of the Turkish leader, Dr Merkel has been sparing in her criticism for fear of endangering a refugee swap deal......" (wtf!)
 


truthandjustice

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The world is gone insane. The voting booth is our last salvation. The open borders twats have to go.
 

willow68

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What does it take for the German voters to demand an election...are they all mild sheep happy for the wolves - grey ones in this instance - to run riot ??
And drag everyone else down with them. Merkel must step down.
 

Spanner Island

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What does it take for the German voters to demand an election...are they all mild sheep happy for the wolves - grey ones in this instance - to run riot ??
And drag everyone else down with them. Merkel must step down.
They (Germany) seem to be in an odd place... half way between continuing to guilt trip themselves because of Hitler while also unable to trust themselves to behave as an independent country among others.

The EU (imperfect as it undoubtedly is) has actually had the effect of keeping a lid on numerous ex-colonial powers from starting any sh!t.

Europe is unique in the way there are so many ex-colonial powers living cheek by jowel within such a small area. There is nowhere else in the world with so many ex-colonial powers in such numbers.

Brexit was the first chink in the armour of keeping those powers from losing the run of themselves again...

Merkel's recklessness in allowing in 1 million+ refugees won't have helped either...

Having said that the implosion of the EU (which many seem eager for) is unlikely to deliver any sort of Nirvana either... and could in fact lead us back to the normality of more conflict... because conflict was the norm in Europe pre-EU with the last 70 years of relative peace having been the exception.
 

Mad as Fish

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America, Israel and Russia know exactly what's going on and who is buddies with who, other major governments will probably know less but will know enough to be aware of how their interests may be affected and so it all becomes a matter of managing the intelligence and firefighting the leaks.

We are all sheep as far the guys playing these games are concerned.
 

willow68

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They (Germany) seem ..

Merkel's recklessness in allowing in 1 million+ refugees won't have helped either...

Having said that the implosion of the EU (which many seem eager for) is unlikely to deliver any sort of Nirvana either... and could in fact lead us back to the normality of more conflict... because conflict was the norm in Europe pre-EU with the last 70 years of relative peace having been the exception.
That recklessness will cost us all dearly. Surely such a unilateral approach has violated some EU law? They seem to be able to micromanage toasters across the member states - but not a pip in the single biggest issue to face generations after us.
Or perhaps Merkels closeness to Sutherland and Soros and her receipt of the Kalergi-Coudenhove prize might lead to more unkind conclusions.
 

McTell

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No
....
Europe is unique in the way there are so many ex-colonial powers living cheek by jowel within such a small area. There is nowhere else in the world with so many ex-colonial powers in such numbers.....

Yes, but. Without the overseas empires, we are back to sheep grazing and olive trees. What we had for millennia, living in mud huts. Few of us want that again.

So the EU still has to exploit the world thru new trade agreements to keep some sort of surplus coming our way. Otherwise we are back to sheep/olives/mud huts.

So while millions are on the dole, we import "labour" from as far away as north korea. It's legal so it must be OK.

Brexit: Who'll Do Your Job Now? Channel 4 Dispatches - Channel 4 - Info - Press
 

Spanner Island

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That recklessness will cost us all dearly. Surely such a unilateral approach has violated some EU law? They seem to be able to micromanage toasters across the member states - but not a pip in the single biggest issue to face generations after us.
Toasters are inanimate objects that are much easier to control than people... :cool:

Regardless... EU member states including Germany and France break rules whenever they feel like it...

This is one of the really frustrating things about the EU... that the big countries break rules with impunity while castigating smaller countries which do likewise. It's blatant do as we say but not as we do arrogance.

It doesn't bode well for the future of this feckin' 'project' of theirs... and unfortunately our subservient arse licking wasters cheered on by the likes of Pat Cox and super parasite Peter Sutherland never seem to object to the blatant inconsistencies...
 

Analyzer

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Is somebody acting the "goat" ?

The Merkel government has found a new problem from which to create a disaster.

Did they keep this knowledge under wraps so as prevent a PR disaster for Merkel ?
 

peader odonnell

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What does it take for the German voters to demand an election...are they all mild sheep happy for the wolves - grey ones in this instance - to run riot ??
And drag everyone else down with them. Merkel must step down.
They have fixed term parliments.
 

Mad as Fish

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That recklessness will cost us all dearly. Surely such a unilateral approach has violated some EU law? They seem to be able to micromanage toasters across the member states - but not a pip in the single biggest issue to face generations after us.
Or perhaps Merkels closeness to Sutherland and Soros and her receipt of the Kalergi-Coudenhove prize might lead to more unkind conclusions.
Do you mean the Charlemagne prize? It has had some interesting recipients including Kissinger, Blair, Clinton, The European Commission and even the Euro itself!!?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne_Prize
 

eoghanacht

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Apr 18, 2006
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33,366
Is somebody acting the "goat" ?

The Merkel government has found a new problem from which to create a disaster.

Did they keep this knowledge under wraps so as prevent a PR disaster for Merkel ?

They were prepared to punish German comedians for "insulting" Erdogan.

Then he went and cosied up to Putin.

So hey presto they release "news" telling us he was a rogue all along.

Imagine that :lol:
 

Equinox

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Mar 4, 2011
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They (Germany) seem to be in an odd place... half way between continuing to guilt trip themselves because of Hitler while also unable to trust themselves to behave as an independent country among others.

The EU (imperfect as it undoubtedly is) has actually had the effect of keeping a lid on numerous ex-colonial powers from starting any sh!t.

Europe is unique in the way there are so many ex-colonial powers living cheek by jowel within such a small area. There is nowhere else in the world with so many ex-colonial powers in such numbers.

Brexit was the first chink in the armour of keeping those powers from losing the run of themselves again...

Merkel's recklessness in allowing in 1 million+ refugees won't have helped either...

Having said that the implosion of the EU (which many seem eager for) is unlikely to deliver any sort of Nirvana either... and could in fact lead us back to the normality of more conflict... because conflict was the norm in Europe pre-EU with the last 70 years of relative peace having been the exception.

The 'without the EU we will collapse into war' narrative that the EU promotes is just not borne out by the facts. We've had 70 years of peace because we've had 70 years of democracy on the continent.
Constant war is the nature of Empire, which requires constant conquest. The demise of a series of empires in the wake of WW1 created the peace we have enjoyed, a product of an outbreak of real democracy. Occasionally it has be interrupted by dictators that have had to be dealt with, none of which were dealt with by the EU (not even those in Greece or Spain). In the first test of the EU’s capacity to prevent conflict was the Balkan wars, a test it failed miserably and you could even argue that Germany precipitated the conflict by stretching some imperial muscle in its dealings with the conflicting parties, just as it has in its unilateral dealings with Turkey.
More and more the EU is looking like an imperial project, and if empires create conflict the it is likely that the nEUmpire will drag us into decades of war rather than guaranteeing us any kind of peace.
 

GDPR

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What exactly is this OP about?

Its been accepted for quite some time that Turkey (along with the Gulf States) armed, financed and trained ISIL as part of the insurgency against Assad. If anyone thinks the US, Germany and the UK did not know this at the time then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. As US commentators have been saying for months, Erdogan has transformed Turkey into Pakistan on the Mediterranean - journalists have photographed Turkeys intelligence service actively supporting and supplying ISIL.

But there is simply no question of regime change here - Turkey continues to be a member of NATO and the US and other European countries rushed to endorse Erdogan during the failed "coup." Its impossible to beat ISIL with Erdogan in charge, so the only possible conclusion is that the US and Europe dont really want to.

Merkels dirty deal with Turkey is literally unworkable. The refugee problem was created by the actions of Turkey and other NATO members in Syria, and now Turkey is to be paid 3bn euro to mop up the fall-out. When has Erdogan ever been known to abide by any agreement? It gives him the power to let loose the refugees any time he likes - either pushing them back to Syria, where they will be slaughtered, or sending them on to the streets of Europe, which will be the pretext for riots. The deal was illegal, inhumane and basically stupid - but so is the war in Syria.

The reality is Merkel like Europe has lost all leverage and credibility, not because she is a particularly inept politician, but because Europe will not or cannot take responsibility for itself. The individual countries continue to follow US foreign policy, even though they know that policy is not in their best interests.
 

willow68

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Mad as Fish

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What exactly is this OP about?

Its been accepted for quite some time that Turkey (along with the Gulf States) armed, financed and trained ISIL as part of the insurgency against Assad. If anyone thinks the US, Germany and the UK did not know this at the time then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. As US commentators have been saying for months, Erdogan has transformed Turkey into Pakistan on the Mediterranean - journalists have photographed Turkeys intelligence service actively supporting and supplying ISIL.

But there is simply no question of regime change here - Turkey continues to be a member of NATO and the US and other European countries rushed to endorse Erdogan during the failed "coup." Its impossible to beat ISIL with Erdogan in charge, so the only possible conclusion is that the US and Europe dont really want to.

Merkels dirty deal with Turkey is literally unworkable. The refugee problem was created by the actions of Turkey and other NATO members in Syria, and now Turkey is to be paid 3bn euro to mop up the fall-out. When has Erdogan ever been known to abide by any agreement? It gives him the power to let loose the refugees any time he likes - either pushing them back to Syria, where they will be slaughtered, or sending them on to the streets of Europe, which will be the pretext for riots. The deal was illegal, inhumane and basically stupid - but so is the war in Syria.

The reality is Merkel like Europe has lost all leverage and credibility, not because she is a particularly inept politician, but because Europe will not or cannot take responsibility for itself. The individual countries continue to follow US foreign policy, even though they know that policy is not in their best interests.
Well said, that's the problem in a nutshell!
 

Analyzer

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The reality is Merkel like Europe has lost all leverage and credibility, not because she is a particularly inept politician, but because Europe will not or cannot take responsibility for itself. The individual countries continue to follow US foreign policy, even though they know that policy is not in their best interests.
Spectacularly inept. Merkel is simply bonkers at this point in time.
 

Mad as Fish

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Spectacularly inept. Merkel is simply bonkers at this point in time.
Thatcher went the same way, I'm not sure though that Merkel is drugged up to her eyeballs to the same extent but even so there is no question that she has often played a clever game up until the latest misfortunes (to put it politely) and has cemented Germany's position as top dog in the EU, that takes a certain amount of ability. Whether you agree with what she has done is another question entirely.
 


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