Germany declares the end of the era of free speech

Golah veNekhar

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Dearghoul

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The Haskalah. Anyway those days are long past now.
There wouldn't be quite so many Jews threatening to leave the British Labour Party unless they'd found a welcoming place within.

(That number is exaggerated)

The Haskallah was an adoption of enlightenment principles. Why, to your mind, did the adoption of working class solidarity come about?

As to 'those days being long past', I'd have to do a hat tip to the hypocrisy of someone using events from the fourteen hundreds to advance an argument that won't survive the scrutiny of ..say .. the battle of Cable Street.
 
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Beachcomber

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Yeah, but in the context of what we're talking about, the equivalent is setting up your soap-box in the middle of a mob.

Who's in that mob? Taking just the currently highly topical online mob alone (the so called "far-right"), they are typically young and middle aged men, frustrated by the inferiority of their achievements, binging online for hours every day, self-medicating, visiting right-wing anti-government websites and conspiracy hatcheries, graduating to sites like political irish where they learn their celtic race and culture is endangered — a target of “white genocide, with Jews, gays, libtards and multiculturalism conspiring to undermine him etc.

They are a mob strongly imbued with their own sense of "injustice" - injustices and "wrongs" that they are set to put to right as "patriots", even to exact retribution for - they imagine they will "fight to save their country" and "awaken the sheepish masses", do away with the current "regime" etc. etc.

You think you can have a rational argument with a mob like that? A debate? Well you fail to appreciate the basic anatomy of the problem that governments and people worldwide understand has become urgent to address.

You should Merkel about all of that. She suggested it.

I've seen plenty of what you talk about from lefties too. They have the same belief that "their side" is correct.
 

Beachcomber

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What use is contradicting a fascist when they send you to a concentration camp?
About the same use as contradicting a communist, or any other form of authoritarian person, when they send you to their concentration camp.

I may be uninformed, but I haven't seen any concentration camps in the UK, or the Republic Of Ireland. So some stupid supporter of fascism, communism, or some other -ism can't send me to any concentration camp. Are you saying that people should just thump them when they say stuff?
 

Dearghoul

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It's the Claud Cockburn dilemma.

Claud, bless his cotton socks, fell into conversation with a German national on the cross channel ferry following the long night train from London to Holyhead in about 1947.

Being of a journalistic bent he quickly became convinced that our man had been closely connected to the SS with some special position at a Labour camp.
When they came out to take brandy and cigars on the deck he thought it would have been the easiest thing of all to heave him into the sea.

He didn't.

He asked himself questions about his decision in 'I Claud' which is a great goddam book.

Should we thump them before they start again?

It's not like we don't know now.
 
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Mercurial

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About the same use as contradicting a communist, or any other form of authoritarian person, when they send you to their concentration camp.

I may be uninformed, but I haven't seen any concentration camps in the UK, or the Republic Of Ireland. So some stupid supporter of fascism, communism, or some other -ism can't send me to any concentration camp. Are you saying that people should just thump them when they say stuff?
I'm saying that people shouldn't wait until the fascists have bullets before they start throwing punches.
 

Kevin Parlon

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I'm saying that people shouldn't wait until the fascists have bullets before they start throwing punches.
To the barricades comrades! The fascists are coming!

18e153e6-a5d7-4c09-9eeb-fb59bf951922.jpg

The notion that Antifa are some sort of continuation of underground resistance is comically delusional bollocks. These are authoritarian thugs cosplaying out their revolution fantasies.
 

Splodge

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To the barricades comrades! The fascists are coming!

18e153e6-a5d7-4c09-9eeb-fb59bf951922.jpg

The notion that Antifa are some sort of continuation of underground resistance is comically delusional bollocks. These are authoritarian thugs cosplaying out their revolution fantasies.
Your “side” murder people Parlon.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Funny how radicalism is associated with people of skin colour, whereas there is just as much radicalisation going on around young white males and that has pretty much always been the case.

Are young white males who go rogue with guns at US public events radicalised in some way? Almost certainly. And yet you rarely hear of any association of the radicalisation process with young white males.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Antifa are certainly Fascists .
Lazy thinking.

Those who advocate and take part in direct action (without any democratic mandate) are not fascists - that is not what defines a fascist,

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, usually ultra-nationalist political philosophy. Nothing else is fascism. Dictators can come from elsewhere in the political spectrum, but they are not fascists - e.g. Stalin and Mao were not fascists. Now you can say that is a moot point to their victims, but this is a political discussion board, and here these things should matter.

Those who oppose fascists (including people like Antifa who take direct action and have no democratic mandate) are not fascists. They may be thugs, and they may be undemocratic (even anti-democratic), but that is not fascism.
 

roc_

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roc_

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Those who oppose fascists (including people like Antifa who take direct action and have no democratic mandate) are not fascists. They may be thugs, and they may be undemocratic (even anti-democratic), but that is not fascism.
As regards the radical left in general it certainly comes close, even considering the difficulty of defining fascism.

Here's what Mussolini said it was:

"... Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity.

It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people.

Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual.

And if liberty is to he the attribute of living men and not of abstract dummies invented by individualistic liberalism, then Fascism stands for liberty, and for the only liberty worth having, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State
...

So do we shy away from the fascist label just because the new radical left fascists hypocritically pose as do-gooders, progressives, communists, pacifists, Christians?

Do we ignore such facts as that they advocate mass-values, mass-mentality, and falsification of intellectual activity?

Good video here pointing to some key facts in the question.


It is also not insignificant that both the far right and radical left recruit at the fringes , from the exact same constituency - the young and naive, the malcontent, the dispossessed, the mentally sick.
 
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blinding

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Lazy thinking.

Those who advocate and take part in direct action (without any democratic mandate) are not fascists - that is not what defines a fascist,

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, usually ultra-nationalist political philosophy. Nothing else is fascism. Dictators can come from elsewhere in the political spectrum, but they are not fascists - e.g. Stalin and Mao were not fascists. Now you can say that is a moot point to their victims, but this is a political discussion board, and here these things should matter.

Those who oppose fascists (including people like Antifa who take direct action and have no democratic mandate) are not fascists. They may be thugs, and they may be undemocratic (even anti-democratic), but that is not fascism.
So they are mirror image of Fascists ! Left Fascists .

Why does the left not admit they have the mirror image of Fascists .

Did Stalin , Mao and others not kill enough people . Actually far more than the Right have killed .
 

Hillmanhunter1

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No they are not mirror images of fascists. They may be equally as odious, but they are different.

The only people who want to call the extreme left fascists are those who seek to diffuse, disguise and debase the meaning of that word. The word fascist belongs to the right, and only the right.

The "kill-count" is irrelevant.
 
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blinding

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No they are not mirror images of fascists. They may be equally as odious, but they are different.

The only people who want to call the extreme left fascists are those who seek to diffuse, disguise and debase the meaning of that word. The word fascist belongs to the right, and only the right.

The "kill-count" is irrelevant.
Left Fascists seems perfectly sensible .

Left Fascists have killed more people than the Right have ever done .

Why can the left not cope with being called Left Fascists particularly when they have killed so many People for not agreeing with them and following the Lefts Edicts .
 

Rural

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So they are mirror image of Fascists ! Left Fascists .

Why does the left not admit they have the mirror image of Fascists .

Did Stalin , Mao and others not kill enough people . Actually far more than the Right have killed .
The extremes on both sides look and act very similar, Stalin was as dangerous and bloodthirsty as Hitler was.

The difference is in the definitions of Fascism and Socialism that's all.

The idea of Socialism is actually quite a good idea, but it never worked. George Orwell's "Animal Farm" shows how it fails miserably, power and wealth go to people's heads and then it all gets dictatorial and pear shaped.

In a nutshell.
 

blinding

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The extremes on both sides look and act very similar, Stalin was as dangerous and bloodthirsty as Hitler was.

The difference is in the definitions of Fascism and Socialism that's all.

The idea of Socialism is actually quite a good idea, but it never worked. George Orwell's "Animal Farm" shows how it fails miserably, power and wealth go to people's heads and then it all gets dictatorial and pear shaped.

In a nutshell.
The Left is just as dangerous if not more dangerous than the Right .

I suggest the Left comes up with a good name for their Fascists or are they happy with Mass Murderers . After all they have killed far more than the Right .
 

Rural

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The Left is just as dangerous if not more dangerous than the Right .

I suggest the Left comes up with a good name for their Fascists or are they happy with Mass Murderers . After all they have killed far more than the Right .
Come on now, you are talking about extremists and people killing - We all have a leaning one way or the other, I lean towards the left but I don't go about killing people who don't agree with me. I can also get along with and have some fantastic discussions with friends who lean to the right.

No blood is shed.

Edit - I have to add that this "Black & White" view of society and the world is an extremely childish view and one you don't expect from a political discussion site.
 

blinding

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Everybody knows and understands that the Right can go too far and end up in Dark Places .

For some reason the Extreme Left is not thought of / treated the same way .

I give the example of a young lady on British TV who said she was a Communist ( literally a Communist ) . This had no affect on her appearing on many other TV shows .

Had she said she was a Fascist , that would have been the end of her mainstream TV appearances .

Why does the Extreme Left get a free pass that would never be given to the Extreme Right .
 


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