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Germany: Europes biggest debtor nation.


Mad as Fish

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Another piece from Die Spiegel -

www.spiegel.de/ Germany was biggest debt transgressor of 20th century

According to the German Economic Historian, Albrecht Ritschl -

during the 20th century, Germany was responsible for what were the biggest national bankruptcies in recent history. It is only thanks to the United States, which sacrificed vast amounts of money after both World War I and World War II, that Germany is financially stable today and holds the status of Europe's headmaster. That fact, unfortunately, often seems to be forgotten.

The whole interview really is dynamite and for those that are still minded to believe that the German economy is some sort of miracle based on past prudence and austerity they should read this and then keep very quiet indeed. Certainly, I shall have it bookmarked and refer to it whenever one of Dr Merkel's little friends pop up here to tell us how we should all be licking the very earth that she treads upon.
 


stopdoingstuff

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Yes, then-Chancellor Helmut Kohl refused at the time to implement changes to the London Agreement on German External Debts of 1953. Under the terms of the agreement, in the event of a reunification, the issue of German reparations payments from World War II would be newly regulated. The only demand made was that a small remaining sum be paid, but we're talking about minimal sums here. With the exception of compensation paid out to forced laborers, Germany did not pay any reparations after 1990 -- and neither did it pay off the loans and occupation costs it pressed out of the countries it had occupied during World War II. Not to the Greeks, either.
The German bankruptcies in the last century show that the sensible thing to do now would be to have a real reduction of the debt.
Common sense really.....except in the crazy dreams of the EU, who are essentially the gunmen for Big Finance.
 

Boy M5

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The Germans seem to have forgotten how our state ( through the auspices of CJH!) helped their reunification.

"[Ireland] "supported us and we will never forget it"

Helmut Kohl

ireland.com / Charles J Haughey // 1925-2006
 

Analyzer

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One who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing....

Meanwhile the Irish print media tries to exort the the Irish PAYE taxpayer to get involved in another real estate mania....
 
B

birthday

Another piece from Die Spiegel -

www.spiegel.de/ Germany was biggest debt transgressor of 20th century

According to the German Economic Historian, Albrecht Ritschl -

during the 20th century, Germany was responsible for what were the biggest national bankruptcies in recent history. It is only thanks to the United States, which sacrificed vast amounts of money after both World War I and World War II, that Germany is financially stable today and holds the status of Europe's headmaster. That fact, unfortunately, often seems to be forgotten.

The whole interview really is dynamite and for those that are still minded to believe that the German economy is some sort of miracle based on past prudence and austerity they should read this and then keep very quiet indeed. Certainly, I shall have it bookmarked and refer to it whenever one of Dr Merkel's little friends pop up here to tell us how we should all be licking the very earth that she treads upon.
Interesting but this is from June 2011.
 

Mad as Fish

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Interesting but this is from June 2011.
Quite, funny how this sort of material never makes it into the Irish media at the time.
 

Goa Tse

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Quite, funny how this sort of material never makes it into the Irish media at the time.
Its no surprise really. The Irish media are, by and large, fawning, servile toadies who are well-versed in scraping and bowing to empires and pouring derision on their own people. They'd never dare question their new EU overlords or, for that matter, portray anything that erodes Irish sovereignty in a negative light.
 
Last edited:

The OD

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I still like the Germans though.
I don't. Some people find them 'open' 'refreshing' and 'blunt'. I found them rude, boring and irritating (the majority of them, including those I knew when I lived there and those I worked for in a large multinational firm I once worked for [and left because I couldn't stick them.])

I do like bringing up WW2 and the holocaust around them though.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I don't. Some people find them 'open' 'refreshing' and 'blunt'. I found them rude, boring and irritating (the majority of them, including those I knew when I lived there and those I worked for in a large multinational firm I once worked for [and left because I couldn't stick them.])

I do like bringing up WW2 and the holocaust around them though.
Yeah but are we our real selves at work?
 

leftymania

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Another piece from Die Spiegel -

www.spiegel.de/ Germany was biggest debt transgressor of 20th century

According to the German Economic Historian, Albrecht Ritschl -

during the 20th century, Germany was responsible for what were the biggest national bankruptcies in recent history. It is only thanks to the United States, which sacrificed vast amounts of money after both World War I and World War II, that Germany is financially stable today and holds the status of Europe's headmaster. That fact, unfortunately, often seems to be forgotten.

The whole interview really is dynamite and for those that are still minded to believe that the German economy is some sort of miracle based on past prudence and austerity they should read this and then keep very quiet indeed. Certainly, I shall have it bookmarked and refer to it whenever one of Dr Merkel's little friends pop up here to tell us how we should all be licking the very earth that she treads upon.
No we should not be licking anyones boots. Germany is not a Nazi country, the Nazis were defeated. Socialists and capitalists took over, naturally the very people the Nazis wanted ousted, the internationalist Jewish banksters came rushing back in a flurry. How do you enslave a people, you give them a loan, they then have to pay that back with interest, the greater the loan, the greater their enslavement. The same scheme was foisted on a war torn and broken Germany after 2 world wars as we are now experiencing today. It is to Germany's credit they managed to assert some sort of financial control at all, however they are still under the heel of international banksters the likes of the ECB, IMF and US federal reserve, Goldman sachs etc, all Jewish run and owned. The Jews own Germany, they now own us. Welcome to your enslavement, something the Nazis knew about and fought to resist.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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They would not be the biggest debtor if the Irish public paid them what their betters in Anglo etc borrowed would they? Time for the ordinary Irish person to stop whining and pay up with some euros. By the way we have the best politicians in Europe and they are worth EVERY pay cut and Tax hike we experience. And our politicians are not as good as the germans by all accounts so it is only right and proper that we pay for those in Germany too.

The Germans only started a couple of WORLD wars, but people here hold them in high esteem.

We like their cars, it makes us feel important and better than everyone else dontcha know.

Priorities Douchebags, priorities.
 

jo9jo

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Another piece from Die Spiegel -

www.spiegel.de/ Germany was biggest debt transgressor of 20th century

According to the German Economic Historian, Albrecht Ritschl -

during the 20th century, Germany was responsible for what were the biggest national bankruptcies in recent history. It is only thanks to the United States, which sacrificed vast amounts of money after both World War I and World War II, that Germany is financially stable today and holds the status of Europe's headmaster. That fact, unfortunately, often seems to be forgotten.

The whole interview really is dynamite and for those that are still minded to believe that the German economy is some sort of miracle based on past prudence and austerity they should read this and then keep very quiet indeed. Certainly, I shall have it bookmarked and refer to it whenever one of Dr Merkel's little friends pop up here to tell us how we should all be licking the very earth that she treads upon.
Don't mean to be Oberlehrerhaft but Spiegel is masculine.
 

b.a. baracus

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Biggest debtors or not, institutional investors have been paying them to buy their Bunds i.e. the interest rate paid on German securities has been far lower than the rate of inflation. Not exactly a bad position to be in, borrowing money and paying less back in real terms.

But of course professional investors know nothing about the safety of German Bunds, unlike the well educated self made billionaires who populate this site.
 
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blokesbloke

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It's certainly true that there is some justification for Germany feeling like it is the one who has to pay for the excesses of others and feeling morally superior.

They did make cuts under the Hartz IV reforms when others didn't, and they are benefitting them from that now.

Other EU countries did behave irresponsibly, especially Greece.

Having said that, it's also true that Germany breached the Stability and Growth pact with zero sanction - the very pact they themselves had insisted on to keep other countries in line - but when it came down to it, they didn't stick to it themselves and nobody punished them for it.

It's also true to say that the reason Germany is resisting pan-European bank supervision is that some of their state banks are in no better shape than those of the so-called PIGS. That's why they're all for pan-European supervision, for only for big national banks and not their own regional ones - even though it's the regional ones causing a lot of the issues in Spain.

And in a historical context it is true that Germany was rebuilt with the money of others after WW2, regardless of their moral failings, and nobody talked about the "moral hazard" of helping out a country which had been brought to its knees through a movement that came from within.

There's two sides to every story, but whilst Germany has the right to some grievances it's also true that things aren't as clear-cut as is being portrayed to them by the German media.

It's also true that the Irish media seem to be much keener on telling Irish people it was their own fault (with a singular and incredibly hypocritical "forgetting" of the media's role in the Celtic Tiger hype) when things aren't quite as simple as that.

The German media seems to want to say none of this is Germany's fault and Germany and Germans are models of fiscal recitude being robbed by greedy profligate PIGS. A grain of truth there, but not the whole picture.

The Irish media seems to want to say this is all Ireland's fault and nothing to do with anything or anyone else, and to support the German narrative of their fiscal rectitude and role as saviour of the thick Paddies - and there's a grain of truth in that but it's not the whole picture either.

Overall, the Germans need to face up to some unpleasant truths and be harder on themselves and the Irish need to accept that they made some mistakes but it's not entirely their fault and to be a little easier on themselves.
 

Boy M5

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@blokesbloke - spot on the money.
 

Mad as Fish

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Last edited:
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

It's certainly true that there is some justification for Germany feeling like it is the one who has to pay for the excesses of others and feeling morally superior.

They did make cuts under the Hartz IV reforms when others didn't, and they are benefitting them from that now.

Other EU countries did behave irresponsibly, especially Greece.

Having said that, it's also true that Germany breached the Stability and Growth pact with zero sanction - the very pact they themselves had insisted on to keep other countries in line - but when it came down to it, they didn't stick to it themselves and nobody punished them for it.

It's also true to say that the reason Germany is resisting pan-European bank supervision is that some of their state banks are in no better shape than those of the so-called PIGS. That's why they're all for pan-European supervision, for only for big national banks and not their own regional ones - even though it's the regional ones causing a lot of the issues in Spain.

And in a historical context it is true that Germany was rebuilt with the money of others after WW2, regardless of their moral failings, and nobody talked about the "moral hazard" of helping out a country which had been brought to its knees through a movement that came from within.

There's two sides to every story, but whilst Germany has the right to some grievances it's also true that things aren't as clear-cut as is being portrayed to them by the German media.

It's also true that the Irish media seem to be much keener on telling Irish people it was their own fault (with a singular and incredibly hypocritical "forgetting" of the media's role in the Celtic Tiger hype) when things aren't quite as simple as that.

The German media seems to want to say none of this is Germany's fault and Germany and Germans are models of fiscal recitude being robbed by greedy profligate PIGS. A grain of truth there, but not the whole picture.

The Irish media seems to want to say this is all Ireland's fault and nothing to do with anything or anyone else, and to support the German narrative of their fiscal rectitude and role as saviour of the thick Paddies - and there's a grain of truth in that but it's not the whole picture either.

Overall, the Germans need to face up to some unpleasant truths and be harder on themselves and the Irish need to accept that they made some mistakes but it's not entirely their fault and to be a little easier on themselves.
+1
 

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