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Germany exporting its old and sick


carruthers

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Apr 30, 2008
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It would appear that Boston and Berlin are much closer than we ever thought.

That's not a society, it's an economy and one we should not bind ourselves any tighter too. Maybe our ambassador over there may make his views known as theirs does over here.
 
D

Dylan2010

wow, can we export our old people to Germany? €35k there versus 50K+ here
 

Half Nelson

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Germany has chosen Mammon over God, the State over the Person and the Economy over Society.

How's that working out?
 

Al.

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Germany has chosen Mammon over God, the State over the Person and the Economy over Society.

How's that working out?
How did it work out last time they did that?

People do need to read what the goals of the Yalta Conference were. Every single one has been undone.
 

mahrud

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May 7, 2012
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What's the fuss?
Exporting one's sick is more humane than gassing them, surely ?
 

OCicero

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I am sure the Indian facilities will be very strictly controlled and regulated.
 

Dame_Enda

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Well they can at least be thankful this is 2012 because their country has a dubious history when it comes to care for the elderly as we all know...
 

Shqiptar

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This is crazy. It's traumatic enough for someone with dementia to adjust from home to the different environment of a care facility. Packing them off to a different country where the language and possibly climate is different make it so much worse.
 

Shqiptar

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It might not seem obvious now but due to lower birth rates, most European countries face significant demographic (and hence, economic) problems in the long term.

This is not something Ireland is facing just yet. We're far better positioned than most nations.

The best and cheapest solution is care in the home or at least within the family with assistance from the state. But since most European countries have been having tiny families for generations, this burden falls on one person which very often isn't a workable solution.
 

damus

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I am sure the Indian facilities will be very strictly controlled and regulated.
No system is ever full-proof. Who is ultimately responsible for the care of the older person if they are being placed in a facility outside the resident state? Are the standards (nursing home regulations, patient staff ratios, nursing) on par with those that exist in Germany? Does Germany monitor these facilities on an ongoing basis, and even if that does happen Germany has zero regulatory powers in a foreign jurisdiction. Without stating the obvious here, but aside from the trauma of it all, you are also increasing the risk of physical neglect and elder abuse if you place sick and vulnerable older people in an environment that is totally alien to them. For starters, there is the language and cultural barriers. By placing people in care environments in a foreign jurisdiction, you are socially isolating people who may be sick and vulnerable from everything that is familiar to them ie, their local community, their established support networks, family and their friends. Take the worse case scenario where your mum or dad is being physically neglected or is being abused in a care environment in India or Slovakia. If you're unable to visit on a regular basis, how would you know if they're being physically or psychologically abused? Would your mum or dad even know which relevant authorities to contact if they are being subjected to a constant barrage of physical abuse from a nurse of care worker? In all likelihood a person who is being abused would be more unlikely to contact the relevant authorities in a country that they are totally unfamiliar with. Of course that's presuming that the victim hasn't been sedated or that the perpetrators would even allow them to have unrestricted access to a telephone in the first place!
 

Shqiptar

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No system is ever full-proof. Who is ultimately responsible for the care of the older person if they are being placed in a facility outside the resident state? Are the standards (nursing home regulations, patient staff ratios, nursing) on par with those that exist in Germany? Does Germany monitor these facilities on an ongoing basis, and even if that does happen Germany has zero regulatory powers in a foreign jurisdiction. Without stating the obvious here, but aside from the trauma of it all, you are also increasing the risk of physical neglect and elder abuse if you place sick and vulnerable older people in an environment that is totally alien to them. For starters, there is the language and cultural barriers. By placing people in care environments in a foreign jurisdiction, you are socially isolating people who may be sick and vulnerable from everything that is familiar to them ie, their local community, their established support networks, family and their friends. Take the worse case scenario where your mum or dad is being physically neglected or is being abused in a care environment in India or Slovakia. If you're unable to visit on a regular basis, how would you know if they're being physically or psychologically abused? Would your mum or dad even know which relevant authorities to contact if they are being subjected to a constant barrage of physical abuse from a nurse of care worker? In all likelihood a person who is being abused would be more unlikely to contact the relevant authorities in a country that they are totally unfamiliar with. Of course that's presuming that the victim hasn't been sedated or that the perpetrators would even allow them to have unrestricted access to a telephone in the first place!
Vulnerable, elderly Germans being left in care facilities in countries where - for historical reasons - Germans are not exactly deeply loved doesn't conjure up pleasant scenarios in my mind.
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
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Well...there's outsourcing. Maybe this is going to far with outsourcing.

It has to be said that the numbers are small, compared to the overall population. But still you would have to wonder is this where outsourcing is going next.

By the way, a lot of well off Northern Europeans are currently residing in Spain, the French Riveria and Portugal. Similar winter residences exist in California, Arizona etc...Though sending people such distances as a cost saving measure might be a bit extreme.
 

OCicero

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Mar 24, 2010
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753
No system is ever full-proof. Who is ultimately responsible for the care of the older person if they are being placed in a facility outside the resident state? Are the standards (nursing home regulations, patient staff ratios, nursing) on par with those that exist in Germany? Does Germany monitor these facilities on an ongoing basis, and even if that does happen Germany has zero regulatory powers in a foreign jurisdiction. Without stating the obvious here, but aside from the trauma of it all, you are also increasing the risk of physical neglect and elder abuse if you place sick and vulnerable older people in an environment that is totally alien to them. For starters, there is the language and cultural barriers. By placing people in care environments in a foreign jurisdiction, you are socially isolating people who may be sick and vulnerable from everything that is familiar to them ie, their local community, their established support networks, family and their friends. Take the worse case scenario where your mum or dad is being physically neglected or is being abused in a care environment in India or Slovakia. If you're unable to visit on a regular basis, how would you know if they're being physically or psychologically abused? Would your mum or dad even know which relevant authorities to contact if they are being subjected to a constant barrage of physical abuse from a nurse of care worker? In all likelihood a person who is being abused would be more unlikely to contact the relevant authorities in a country that they are totally unfamiliar with. Of course that's presuming that the victim hasn't been sedated or that the perpetrators would even allow them to have unrestricted access to a telephone in the first place!
I half expect to be answered by an aged German accent next time I call Tech Support.
 

Analyzer

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Vulnerable, elderly Germans being left in care facilities in countries where - for historical reasons - Germans are not exactly deeply loved doesn't conjure up pleasant scenarios in my mind.
In eastern Europe, this is a particularly difficult point, especially in Poland.

And in Greece of all places, especially given that current Greco-German relations are extremely unpleasant. Past events are continually being referenced in protests and in the "welcome" given visiting German politicians.
 

runwiththewind

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Apr 12, 2012
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This is why I support the individuals right to die and I hope this is legal by the time I reach old age. Imagine being in the position to say "today is the day that I choose to die", and be able to do the deed yourself. Now that's what I would consider a dignified death.
 

Morgellons

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This is why I support the individuals right to die and I hope this is legal by the time I reach old age. Imagine being in the position to say "today is the day that I choose to die", and be able to do the deed yourself. Now that's what I would consider a dignified death.
There's nothing stopping you from doing that now. I don't quite understand your point.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Jun 8, 2007
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7,184
I am sure the Indian facilities will be very strictly controlled and regulated.
The quarterly reports and KPI's will say as much...

Non Germans in trains, old Germans from the same era in planes.... just a fair bit further east, same objective.

Charming
 

good dog

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Nov 23, 2012
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Often thought it would be nice to retire to Spain, Thailand or somewhere. So why not to a nursing home in one of these places?
 

Morgellons

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It's like that English film from last year, the Marigold Hotel I think it was called, about a nursing home in India.
 
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