Getting Involved

zuiderzee

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For all the talk from FF/FG/Labour/Greens etc about getting youth involved in politics and taking part in our democracy, they take very little action.

Why not do something proactive rather than just pay lip service for a change, like remove Religion as a leaving cert subject and replace it with an enhanced civics curriculum?

Its been a while, but as a student civics class was a joke.

The problems of voter apathy and democratic deficit are not exclusivly Irish, and a lot of people are very aware of their rights in society, but not their responsibilities.

We are also getting to a situation where talent shows are getting a more vote turnout and coverage than elections.
Xfactor means more to people than politics, and because we have a virtual political caste it is getting harder for the state to relate to everyday life - not that FF or FG want to do anything about the continued perpetuation of a two party system.

Why not have civics as a compulsary, scored subject to junior cert level - just to teach students how the country is meant to work - and a simple format, the basics

e.g.
How our PR electoral system works and how it compares to others
The role of the Government
The role of the Legal branch
The rights and responsibilities of the individual
The rights and responsibilities of the state
How the EU works
The EU's role in relation to the state etc.

Then, as a votive - extra - subject for the Leaving Cert students - as in the US - could earn college points for various voluntary activities.
To involve them in the community.

A good example would be the selection of a local ameinity for repair, rubbish removal, graffiti removal, volunteer hospital work etc. in return for a project book submitted for CAO placement points, particularly if it had relevance to a college course.

As an extension of the civic program, and in conjunction with AN's policy to switch more foreign aid to micro finance.
This also ties in with the idea of a VSO/Peace Corps. It could be integrated to transition year for schools that have that system or perhaps a better idea during a gap year for students.

This provides an opportunity for schools to link with projects, the class is partially given a budget by the state to invest in micro finance - and get a return on investment for the school.

I'd be in favour of students raising their own budget through civic or sponsored programs, and the state matches that fund to a capped amount.

They vote on what project to support - it involves them in a democratic decision making process.

We would work with someone like Kiva.org, or base a program on that model.
It connects students with the project directly, and could tie in with the overseas volunteer program.
 


DeputyEdo

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Aug 9, 2010
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3,449
Religion is a leaving cert subject????
If you get a C or D, does that mean you're going to hell??
 

neiphin

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Aug 23, 2009
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Yep cause removing religion from school will somehow fix the financial crisis.
you know full well the op meant
you could at least try to be witting
cause obviously not intelligent
but why such a stupid vacuous statement

Optional Irish - Fine Gael policy for a long time now!
twit
give up the mantra
its not about irish or maths or geography
its about teaching responsibility
of the state and the citizen
the roles of both
 

Edo

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Optional Irish - Fine Gael policy for a long time now!
and a very wrong one too Dave - we have to change that - in fact my branch will be submitting a request to HQ to have our policy changed in regard to it.

Irish is an intrinsic part of our identity and our culture

Irish should remain a compulsory subject - but the way it is taught needs to be completely revamped - ie after spending the last 80 years teaching the majority of us to hate the language - they should spend the next 80 reviving it.

Im no gaelgoir - but Im ashamed to say that I got a D in pass Irish in the leaving back in the day - absolutely hated it - the thoughts of another class of Irish prose and poetry would have me reaching for the cyanide pills - but I got a B in both honours French and German in that same leaving and have picked up Greek and smattering of Italian,Spanish and latterly polish over the years - so it wasn't lack of ability that had me dreading the Irish class.

We need to strip it down to the reality of what it is for most people in this state - a foreign language - and teach it as such. strip out all the political and historical overtones and just concentrate on getting the kids to speak the language as a language. Maybe then, for stronger students, and those who went to Gaelscoileanna ,optional subjects like Irish prose,poetry,music and literature could be split off from the main language teaching. I definitely think that the basic language course should remain compulsory and have additional points as a bonus for the leaving cert.

Its only when you reach my age - late 30's - that you appreciate what you dont have -kids are clueless at that age - but thats the time when your brain takes in most - its a beautiful language and its my intention to add to my cupla focail over the next few years.

If anything - it will stop all the "republicans" around here beating us over the head for our "percieved" lack of patriotism - which in Ireland of course, is measured in words and talk - not action.
 

Jack White

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and a very wrong one too Dave - we have to change that - in fact my branch will be submitting a request to HQ to have our policy changed in regard to it.

Irish is an intrinsic part of our identity and our culture
Irish should remain a compulsory subject - but the way it is taught needs to be completely revamped - ie after spending the last 80 years teaching the majority of us to hate the language - they should spend the next 80 reviving it.

Im no gaelgoir - but Im ashamed to say that I got a D in pass Irish in the leaving back in the day - absolutely hated it - the thoughts of another class of Irish prose and poetry would have me reaching for the cyanide pills - but I got a B in both honours French and German in that same leaving and have picked up Greek and smattering of Italian,Spanish and latterly polish over the years - so it wasn't lack of ability that had me dreading the Irish class.

We need to strip it down to the reality of what it is for most people in this state - a foreign language - and teach it as such. strip out all the political and historical overtones and just concentrate on getting the kids to speak the language as a language. Maybe then, for stronger students, and those who went to Gaelscoileanna ,optional subjects like Irish prose,poetry,music and literature could be split off from the main language teaching. I definitely think that the basic language course should remain compulsory and have additional points as a bonus for the leaving cert.

Its only when you reach my age - late 30's - that you appreciate what you dont have -kids are clueless at that age - but thats the time when your brain takes in most - its a beautiful language and its my intention to add to my cupla focail over the next few years.

If anything - it will stop all the "republicans" around here beating us over the head for our "percieved" lack of patriotism - which in Ireland of course, is measured in words and talk - not action.
On the money, agus go raibh maith agat.

Here's a thread I started on these very subjects from a couple of years back - the beauty of our own language, and the civic benefit of both that, and economic literacy.

http://www.politics.ie/economy/31464-should-basic-economics-compulsory-subject-schools-3.html
 

zuiderzee

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Messages
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amhrannua.com
Yep cause removing religion from school will somehow fix the financial crisis.
That is not what I said, but in fairness, a knowledge of economics or the concepts of Urban II > You do the math.

IMHO the teaching of religion should remain the preserve of whatever religion you - or more correctly - your parents subscribe to. Keep it in your church or temple or whatever house of god(s) you wish to worship in, but dont expect the state education system to waste time and money on it - be it scientology, christianity, islam, judaism or whatever.
The fact that Darwinist theory is not an integral part of the Irish curriculum is a sad reflection on educational priority.

I believe a proper civics course would have a broader application to productive subjects, like economics, law and how our system is meant to work - at least civics with a legal module might have taught some clerics right from wrong when it came to dealing with children
 

Goban Saor

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Jul 5, 2010
Messages
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That is not what I said, but in fairness, a knowledge of economics or the concepts of Urban II > You do the math.

IMHO the teaching of religion should remain the preserve of whatever religion you - or more correctly - your parents subscribe to. Keep it in your church or temple or whatever house of god(s) you wish to worship in, but dont expect the state education system to waste time and money on it - be it scientology, christianity, islam, judaism or whatever.
The fact that Darwinist theory is not an integral part of the Irish curriculum is a sad reflection on educational priority.

I believe a proper civics course would have a broader application to productive subjects, like economics, law and how our system is meant to work - at least civics with a legal module might have taught some clerics right from wrong when it came to dealing with children
I'm not infavour of anything be manditory. Just pointing out the silliness in your post that the youth wings arent useful because they dont support some random/pointless policy.
 

justme1

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Oct 4, 2010
Messages
595
you know full well the op meant
you could at least try to be witting
cause obviously not intelligent
but why such a stupid vacuous statement



twit
give up the mantra
its not about irish or maths or geography
its about teaching responsibility
of the state and the citizen
the roles of both
Wow you really told him there
 

zuiderzee

Active member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
105
Website
amhrannua.com
I'm not infavour of anything be manditory. Just pointing out the silliness in your post that the youth wings arent useful because they dont support some random/pointless policy.
I am not talking about youth wings, I am talking about getting people involved in politics, and public service, at a younger age.

I did make the point that for the Leaving Certificate it should be a votive - optional - subject that could generate CAO points for participants
 


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