Gilmore and Kenny, the pros and cons

RahenyFG

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Either Eamon Gilmore or Enda Kenny are likely to be our next taoiseach whenever the next election surfaces. I'd like to put it to people what are your pros and cons of Gilmore and Kenny, i'll get the ball rolling.

Gilmore

Pros
-very good speaker, offering hope in times of despair
-has the tough personality required to lead a government in recessionary times
-very keen to protect the most vunerable in society, promises not to cut those at the low end and in need of services

Cons
-his figures on the economy don't add up
-the last thing this country needs is someone who projects hope on a Barack Obama scale
-no cabinet experience

Kenny

Pros
- some cabinet experience, Minister for Tourism and Trade 1994-1997
-his chairman style is what is needed to reform government
- his party has proposals that are required to meet deficit requirements

Cons
-poor communication skills in the age of personality politics
-decision making has to be questioned, the new front bench this year and the pairings scandal recently.
-limited government experience, junior minister in 1986-1987 and holding a minor cabinet role in the mid 1990s
 


SideysGhost

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Surely not having any experience of "the way things are done" in this rotten cesspit of a country is actually a positive.

I've no idea why Labour and FG keep deliberately jumping up and down on top of this mendacious FF "Cabinet experience" landmine. FFS, how stupid are youse?
 

RahenyFG

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Surely not having any experience of "the way things are done" in this rotten cesspit of a country is actually a positive.

I've no idea why Labour and FG keep deliberately jumping up and down on top of this mendacious FF "Cabinet experience" landmine. FFS, how stupid are youse?
Im not saying cabinet experience is essential to doing well in government. Im just talking about it in a general sense. Sure Tony Blair had no prior cabinet experience when taking over as British Prime Minister in 1997 and he ended up being a great prime minister, bar the Iraq War.

Sure the Fianna Failures have had plenty of cabinet experience. Even outside of FF, Mary Harney has had 13 years of cabinet experience and is poorly leading a disastrous health ministry. And would 13 years of cabinet experience in technical terms qualify her to be taoiseach..NO!
 

Desperate Dan

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Either Eamon Gilmore or Enda Kenny are likely to be our next taoiseach whenever the next election surfaces. I'd like to put it to people what are your pros and cons of Gilmore and Kenny, i'll get the ball rolling.

Gilmore

Pros
-very good speaker, offering hope in times of despair
-has the tough personality required to lead a government in recessionary times
-very keen to protect the most vunerable in society, promises not to cut those at the low end and in need of services

Cons
-his figures on the economy don't add up
-the last thing this country needs is someone who projects hope on a Barack Obama scale
-no cabinet experience

Kenny

Pros
- some cabinet experience, Minister for Tourism and Trade 1994-1997
-his chairman style is what is needed to reform government
- his party has proposals that are required to meet deficit requirements

Cons
-poor communication skills in the age of personality politics
-decision making has to be questioned, the new front bench this year and the pairings scandal recently.
-limited government experience, junior minister in 1986-1987 and holding a minor cabinet role in the mid 1990s
Your post suggest the next Gov. is going to be lead by gob!!!!es so where is the change and this country needs change.
 

PrinceMax

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Kenny

Pros:
- Seems like a nice enough person

Cons:
- A large number in his own party don't have faith in him
- His party under his leadership has already been rejected once by the people
 

RahenyFG

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- His party under his leadership has already been rejected once by the people
Keep in mind, going into the 2007 election, Fine Gael had just 32 seats and were really rebuilding themselves after the near meltdowm in 2002. If they had won 50+ seats in 2002 then they would have had a better platform to win the 2007 election. They were close enough in 2007, all things considered.
 

shannonBlueShirt

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Gilmore:

Con:
- He has refused to declare how he will handle any tough(possilbe unpopular issues like the coke deal and ps reform....

Kenny:
Pro:
he can be taoisech to the people of the calibre of Leo V, Richard Bruton, James O Reily and Alan shatter as he has taken chairmans approach. I dont believe Gilmore would know what to do with people smarter then him.
 
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RahenyFG

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Your post suggest the next Gov. is going to be lead by gob!!!!es so where is the change and this country needs change.
Im not entirely saying that. Im taking an on-the-fence analysis in my post and not being bias to either.
 

PrinceMax

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Keep in mind, going into the 2007 election, Fine Gael had just 32 seats and were really rebuilding themselves after the near meltdowm in 2002. If they had won 50+ seats in 2002 then they would have had a better platform to win the 2007 election. They were close enough in 2007, all things considered.
But they didn't get enough seats to get into government - so they were rejected. As good as he did, he didn't do good enough.
 

RahenyFG

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But they didn't get enough seats to get into government - so they were rejected. As good as he did, he didn't do good enough.
Fine Gael went from having 31 seats in 2002 and 53 off forming a government.
In 2007, as part of the Alliance For Change were 13 seats off forming a government and 7 seats if you were to include the Green Party. Now that's progress.
 

Desperate Dan

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Keep in mind, going into the 2007 election, Fine Gael had just 32 seats and were really rebuilding themselves after the near meltdowm in 2002. If they had won 50+ seats in 2002 then they would have had a better platform to win the 2007 election. They were close enough in 2007, all things considered.
You know the saying if me aunt had ba!!s she be me uncle.
 

PrinceMax

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Fine Gael went from having 31 seats in 2002 and 53 off forming a government.
In 2007, as part of the Alliance For Change were 13 seats off forming a government and 7 seats if you were to include the Green Party. Now that's progress.
Doesn't matter. I reckon there are a lot of people that wouldn't vote for a party led by someone they didn't want to see as Taoiseach last time. First impressions stick. Also, to change your mind five years on, would be like admitting you were wrong.
 

civilserpant

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Kenny is a good organiser, good background person - but he can't deliver when he feels pressure.
 

RahenyFG

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Doesn't matter. I reckon there are a lot of people that wouldn't vote for a party led by someone they didn't want to see as Taoiseach last time. First impressions stick. Also, to change your mind five years on, would be like admitting you were wrong.
It's not fair on a leader of a party to be just judged on one election and be ousted after an election defeat. Take Edward Heath as Tory Leader. He was rejected as you say at the polls by the British electorate in 1966 but won the next election in 1970. Same with Liam Cosgrave as Fine Gael leader here. Didn't get an election victory in 1969 but did in 1973. I think people who voted Fianna Fail in 2007 can more than admit that they were admit after the last three disastrous years following the last election.
 

RahenyFG

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Kenny is a good organiser, good background person - but he can't deliver when he feels pressure.
so so true. I have never met the man but people tell me that when you met the man in person he is so genuine and has so much energy. Pity he can't translate that to tv, radio, the dali or any debate.
 

firefly123

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Your post suggest the next Gov. is going to be lead by gob!!!!es so where is the change and this country needs change.
Dan,

Who will you be voting for? You may be correct and these two lads are gobsh1tes etc but it is a given that one or the other will be in charge whether you like it or not. Thats just how it is.
 

democrat

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Like you Raheny, my leanings would be towards FG, but I dread to think that Kenny might be taoiseach for 5 long years - sadly, it is looking inevitable.
 

wombat

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so so true. I have never met the man but people tell me that when you met the man in person he is so genuine and has so much energy. Pity he can't translate that to tv, radio, the dali or any debate.
I am not an Enda supporter but I have met him and I have seen him in action personally and he is far more persuasive than on TV. At public meetings, I tend to gravitate towards the socialist corner and among the uncommitted activists, Kenny can get his point across - not converts but respect and preferences, pretty good for a FG leader.
 

wombat

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Like you Raheny, my leanings would be towards FG, but I dread to think that Kenny might be taoiseach for 5 long years - sadly, it is looking inevitable.
If you agree with the policies, go for it - Kenny is a chairman, like Reagan, not Il Duce.
 

berberie

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Gilmore:

Con:
- He has refused to declare how he will handle any tough(possilbe unpopular issues like the coke deal and ps reform....

Kenny:
Pro:
he can be taoisech to the people of the calibre of Leo V, Richard Bruton, James O Reily and Alan shatter as he has taken chairmans approach. I dont believe Gilmore would know what to do with people smarter then him.
Ummm Ruairi Quinn, Brendan Howlin, Jan O'Sullivan, Michael D Higgins, Joan Burton, Liz McManus, Willie Penrose etc all have brains, Shannon you may not like them as they are of a different political persuasion however please don't suggest that these people are not intelligent!
 


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