Gilmore's Travels and his beanstalk economics.

John Kalahan

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Gilmore's political Travels and his beanstalk economics.

Gilmore's political Travels and his beanstalk economics.

Eamon Gilmore is our Greatest Political Tourist, first he joined The Workers Party, (he told us they were what we needed) then decided it was best to leave and join New Agenda,(he told us they were what we needed too) not happy with New Agenda he turned it into Democratic Left (whom he told us they were what we needed). He then decided with others to take over The Labour Party (whom he tells us they are what we need).

One constant which Eamon has been convinced about is that we need to tax the rich. First he will convince you that you are not rich, and that he will give you a better life when he hunts down the rich and taxes them for you.

Recently he has moved on to the magic seeds theory or beanstalk economics. It is basically expands beyond the range of appeal on tax the rich.

Eamon and Joan have these magic seeds they will plant in tons of more borrowed money and it will save the economy.

If you are paying union subscriptions you will not be defined as rich by Eamon. No need at all for any pain if you are in a union, in fact you can have a raise (financed by taxing the rich and the harvest from the beanstalk crop)

Borrow and spend with the magic seeds and it will restore the economy, without any policies as long as you plant the seeds in the rotted entrails of Fianna Fáil Politicians and Bank Executives.

But Eamon told us to Nationalise the Banks which would give us ownership of their losses too.


Can we believe him if he tells us he would not enter Government with Fianna Fáil if it would make him the Taoiseach?
 
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irishfeller

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Its amazing that Labour and Gilmore are so popular when he wont ever define what his policies are! He wont even say if he supports the Croke Park deal or not.

Did we not get enough of this populist leadership style under Bertie. Should we not start voting for people with the most prudent policies for health, economy, etc. instead of the person with the best sound bytes.
 

Libero

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John Kalahan said:
But Eamon told us to Nationalise the Banks which would give us ownership of their losses too.
Oh Christ, another one.

While the "nationalisation = assumption of debt" trope is always tiresome, I never get bored of hearing someone accused of having no policies, either seconds before or after that someone is accused of having crazy policies. It's unoriginal and truly stupid, but never boring.
 

Asparagus

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Its amazing that Labour and Gilmore are so popular when he wont ever define what his policies are! He wont even say if he supports the Croke Park deal or not.

Did we not get enough of this populist leadership style under Bertie. Should we not start voting for people with the most prudent policies for health, economy, etc. instead of the person with the best sound bytes.
Why would he say what his policies are ahead of a GE campaign - then FF and FG would have extra time to spin them negatively - with labour you know what they stand for and that resonates well with the public at the moment.

Unfortunately public opinion lags public need by about 5 years - we needed labour in 2004-2005 and...

.... we need FG now.
We need competitive salaries in our PS
We need further rationalisation of the social welfare provisions
We need to invest in irish business
We need to shore up the multinational presence
 

seabhac siulach

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Gilmore's Travels and his beanstalk economics.


One constant which Eamon has been convinced about is that we need to tax the rich. First he will convince you that you are not rich, and that he will give you a better life when he hunts down the rich and taxes them for you.
It is Fianna Fail (a party of the right), not Labour, who has raised taxes to their presently high levels...witness the swingeing levies imposed on every worker due to Fianna Fail's financial and fiscal incompetence during the 'good' times. Fianna Fail are now even talking about taxing the very lowest paid...but I suppose that is okay as long as the rich do not have to pay their share for the society we all live in...which is what you appear to think. A morally dubious position...


But Eamon told us to Nationalise the Banks which would give us ownership of their losses too.
We will end up effectively nationalising the banks in any case. It would have been quicker, and more effective, if the banks had been nationalised at the start so that losses could have been more quickly crystalised and lending therefore more quickly resumed to SMEs...
But, of course, that would get in the way of market orthodoxy, wouldn't it?

Very early days to be attacking Gilmore. My suspicion is that the more he is attacked, the more attention he will receive, and the higher he and Labour will go in the polls. All publicity is good publicity...especially when the govt. is so weak and is an effective punching bag for any half decent opposition party.
 

John Kalahan

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Messages
122
Would Eamon

Would Eamon:

Reduce pensions and social welfare payments?

Reduce public sector worker numbers?

Reverse public sector pay cuts?

Increase gift and inheritance taxes?

Increase corporation taxes?

Tax second homes and investment properties?

Charge water rates?
 

stonethrower

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Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
276
Gilmore's Travels and his beanstalk economics.

Eamon Gilmore is our Greatest Political Tourist, first he joined The Workers Party, (he told us they were what we needed) then decided it was best to leave and join New Agenda,(he told us they were what we needed too) not happy with New Agenda he turned it into Democratic Left (whom he told us they were what we needed). He then decided with others to take over The Labour Party (whom he tells us they are what we need).

One constant which Eamon has been convinced about is that we need to tax the rich. First he will convince you that you are not rich, and that he will give you a better life when he hunts down the rich and taxes them for you.

Recently he has moved on to the magic seeds theory or beanstalk economics. It is basically expands beyond the range of appeal on tax the rich.

Eamon and Joan have these magic seeds they will plant in tons of more borrowed money and it will save the economy.

If you are paying union subscriptions you will not be defined as rich by Eamon. No need at all for any pain if you are in a union, in fact you can have a raise (financed by taxing the rich and the harvest from the beanstalk crop)

Borrow and spend with the magic seeds and it will restore the economy, without any policies as long as you plant the seeds in the rotted entrails of Fianna Fáil Politicians and Bank Executives.

But Eamon told us to Nationalise the Banks which would give us ownership of their losses too.


Can we believe him if he tells us he would not enter Government with Fianna Fáil if it would make him the Taoiseach?

Well I suppose the attacks were going to come sooner or later given the polls yesterday.

I think they will be counter productive, attacking Gilmore will only do one thing and that is drive up his approval ratings.

The problem for FF and FG is that Gilmore has credibility, but more importantly he has integrity in the minds of a fair chunk of the electorate.

FF are very desperate, ordinary punters don't buy the FF line that Eamon's views on Croke are a matter of national importance and one of the most pressing issues facing the country. FF have destroyed the economy and have put the future of our country in jeopardy and this is their focus!!

Secondly unlike Kenny who needs to be coached and advised to an inch of his life, Eamon is his own man, he takes advice but he has a finger on the pulse of where ordinary people are at and has a great ability to articulate it. He cut to the heart of it in stating that Cowen had committed economic treason, Kenny just blundered and blustered.

All this talk in the political bubble about FG having all these policies just shows how detached most of these people are from the vast majority of the electorate. The ordinary punter does not sit down and read policy documents, we know that. They want to know the broad outlines, how will I be affected, but they also make decisions on the basis of trust and faith in political leaders. FG and Labour should know, they have spent the last 13 years producing excellent policies, much use it did them! In fact Labour traditionally got critisised for spending too much time "seminarising"!

I am probably one of the 1% who looks at policies. I think FG have produced some interesting policies. Both NewERA and New politics are the curates egg. New ERA has potential, but huge gaps as well and this proposal to borrow billions and put stuff off balance sheet worries me. New politics is good on institutional change, but changing institutions is not enough if we are to revitalise democracy and rebuild trust.
 

John Kalahan

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Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
122
Would Eamon:

Reduce pensions and social welfare payments?

Reduce public sector worker numbers?

Reverse public sector pay cuts?

Increase gift and inheritance taxes?

Increase corporation taxes?

Tax second homes and investment properties?

Charge water rates?
 
Last edited:

irishfeller

Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
49
Would Eamon:

Reduce pensions and social welfare payments?

Reduce public sector worker numbers?

Reverse public sector pay cuts?

Increase gift and inheritance taxes?

Increase corporation taxes?

Tax second homes and investment properties?

Charge water rates?

Exactly...Labour may publish general policy documents but they are always vague enough to allow them to sit on the fence.....they will never give their position on controversial issues in case they will lose votes.
 

redhead101

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Nov 10, 2009
Messages
833
Would Eamon:

Reduce pensions and social welfare payments?
No

Reduce public sector worker numbers?
Yes

Reverse public sector pay cuts?
No

Increase gift and inheritance taxes?
If when you say increase, you mean clamp down on the abuses, then yes.

Increase corporation taxes?
No

Tax second homes and investment properties?
Tax on second homes already in place. Would abolish most property-based tax reliefs.

Charge water rates?
Labour scrapped domestic water charges. Cost of installing meters in every house would make its reintroduction un-economic.
 

FakeViking

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Jul 26, 2006
Messages
8,932
Would Eamon:

Reduce pensions and social welfare payments?

Reduce public sector worker numbers?

Reverse public sector pay cuts?

Increase gift and inheritance taxes?

Increase corporation taxes?

Tax second homes and investment properties?

Charge water rates?
Clear up the mess that FF/PDs have left behind?
 

irishfeller

Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
49
Reduce public sector worker numbers?

Yes



Reverse public sector pay cuts?

No
I must say I have never seen any Labour TD say that the number of public sector workers should be cut - that would seem to be against their core principles.

And also weren't Labour Tds saying that public sector pay cuts should be restored? I seem to remember that they did.
 

stonethrower

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Jan 2, 2006
Messages
276
Would Eamon:

Reduce pensions and social welfare payments?

Reduce public sector worker numbers?

Reverse public sector pay cuts?

Increase gift and inheritance taxes?

Increase corporation taxes?

Tax second homes and investment properties?

Charge water rates?
Labour set out its stall in relation to the last Budget at that time.

Expecting Labour to outline what it would do in Government potentially 2 years out from an election is unrealistic, when circumstances can change a lot.

They have taken a stance, have said they would abolish tax reliefs on second properties for example. Cost them votes in the last locals, but it is the right thing to do as it is unequitable and unsustainable, helped to fuel the boom and priced many people out who were buying a home to live in as distinct from a investment.

On public sector pay, if Croke Park deal is done, then that is binding on all Governments irrespective, so I can only imagine that any future Govt would have to abide by no further cuts, but also any reversal would be bound to terms of that agreement which I think make it unlikely in the next 4-5 years.

Ruairi Quinn and Labour introduced the 12.5% corporattion tax rate, so I can't see them changing that, but neither could I see them lowering it further to 5% as some have advocated.

There are lots of possibilities emerging from the Commission on Taxation. There is also the issue of tax collection, how much evasion is going on through self assessment, could more resources there yield more tax without increasing taxes at all.
 

irishfeller

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Messages
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They have taken a stance, have said they would abolish tax reliefs on second properties for example. Cost them votes in the last locals, but it is the right thing to do as it is unequitable and unsustainable, helped to fuel the boom and priced many people out who were buying a home to live in as distinct from a investment.
Thats not really a 'stance' - its not a very controversial issue. Everybody wants these reliefs abolished except the buyers involved.

They don't give their opinions on issues that affect large groups of the electorate.
 

stonethrower

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Jan 2, 2006
Messages
276
Thats not really a 'stance' - its not a very controversial issue. Everybody wants these reliefs abolished except the buyers involved.

They don't give their opinions on issues that affect large groups of the electorate.
Wrong, its a big issue. Came up a lot on the doors in the last local elections. Of course FF and FG were helpfully reminding people of the Labour policy.

Lot of people bought a second, maybe third and more property in the boom. Thought it would be their retirement nest-egg. Now their mortgage is a lot more than any rent they are getting, if they can rent it and Labour not popular for wanting to take away the tax relief.
 

irishfeller

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May 19, 2010
Messages
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Well maybe tax relief on second homes it is a big issue in some constituencies - but its hardly one of the main issues facing the country.

I just wish Labour would be more upfront on their policies - I'm fed up of watching current affairs shows with Labour Tds refusing to say where they stand on issues. e.g. Joan Burton refusing to answer if the unions should vote for the Croke Park deal or not a few weeks ago.

Surely if a party wants to lead the country they can at least say where they stand on issues relevant to the country and not engage in the farcical refusal to state their position.
 


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