Girl wins legal case to be cryogenically frozen

Roll_On

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The father did make some important arguments.



Girl, 14, who died of cancer cryogenically frozen after telling judge she wanted to be brought back to life 'in hundreds of years'

The cryogenicist company has its money now. What incentive is there for them to conduct further research to see how frozen bodies can be brought back to life?
It's a valid point but I'm sure that the girl had considered that and excepted that challenge. Besides at 14 years old, massive changes aren't quite as detrimental as they are to say a 50 year old. At that age 200 years in the future, when life expectancies will be double what they are today, she will still be relatively a very young child capable of growing and learning in her new environment. 100 years ago 14 year olds fought and died in wars for wealthy countries. few people lived to 60.

The incentive for the cryonics company is: if they can revive one and cure them after say 20-30 years and generate a media storm over it, EVERYONE will want it done and their customer base and thus revenue will expand exponentially overnight.
 


Polly Ticks

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silverharp

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The whole principle of cryogenics is - scientifically - very dubious and utterly unproven.

But, it's her body and her mother and grandparents supported her.

Her father withdrew his opposition in the end.
if its essentially a family dispute where they came around to an agreed position, then it is sorted, I don't see any public policy issue here. if family want to support a dead person's wishes that is their business. objectively its a waste of money but no worse than building a big mausoleum or wanting your dead body or ashes launched into space.
It might get interesting if people wanted the right to be frozen before they die
 

nicenin

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if its essentially a family dispute where they came around to an agreed position, then it is sorted, I don't see any public policy issue here. if family want to support a dead person's wishes that is their business. objectively its a waste of money but no worse than building a big mausoleum or wanting your dead body or ashes launched into space.
It might get interesting if people wanted the right to be frozen before they die
It's an interesting one with numerous legal pitfalls. I don't think the person is completely "dead" as in "brain dead" when the company acquire the body.

The heart has stopped but the brain hasn't and that's when the cryonics company start the freezing process, it's a very short time window.

Without having read the OP in full it would explain why the father was involved - the girl isn't actually "dead" yet!
 

Bubbleheaded

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The cryogenicist company has its money now. What incentive is there for them to conduct further research to see how frozen bodies can be brought back to life?
What little I've read about these companies seems to suggest that they have Dr. Nick from the Simpsons doing their research. It's a case of "here, in you go, we'll wake you up in 200 years when we have better science, now give us all your money".
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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I've updated the OP. The father did in the end withdraw his objections.


Grief is terrible.

Perhaps, in time, the mother will repatriate her and give her a burial/cremation.

Terribly sad. If my 14 year old wanted that as a dying wish, I'd convince them that it would happen
 

Polly Ticks

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If the world is overpopulated in the future, how keen will people be to add to the population by defrosting folks from the past, even if they could? Maybe that will be one of the political debates of the future..

What legal mechanism would even oblige companies to defrost someone? You sign a contract with a company in 2016.. probably be worth nothing by 2250.. governments could ban defrosting anyway...
 

Roll_On

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petaljam

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Sad and odd case case, for sure. The thing that struck me when I heard it on the radio this morning (apart from the points already raised here) is that even if it ever does become possible to bring someone back to life, and the method of storage currently used turns out, by massive luck, to be compatible with this, even then, that surely won't be true for someone who has died of cancer or indeed of any illness?

It seems to me that the only way cryogenics could ever work would be for a person who'd been frozen before major cell damage had already occurred through their illness? Basically you'd have to agree to commit suicide while you were still well. This girl will still have cancer, presumably.
 

Watcher2

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Assuming it works... can you imagine what it would be like for her to awake in the year 2150 or 2300 or whatever? Mind-boggling.

Also if this process of freezing and reviving is proven to work, but we don't have tech to prevent ageing at the same time.. what's to stop people having themselves frozen at say 30 years old (rather than 80) so that they can be in good health when they are revived 200 years down the line?!
Sooooo, they want to be frozen in order to be woken up 200 years hence so they can what, witness new breakthroughs 200 years from now and until their death 50 years later rather than witnessing the breakthroughs that will likely occur over the next 50 years of their life without the cryogenics? Or are you referring to terminally ill 30 year olds whop want to be frozen until a cure is discovered?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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If/when such advancements are made, 80 will be a young age, several other ground breaking advancements will have to be made before animal cells can be reanimated from a frozen state.
But, IMHO, dead is dead - I think there is cases of animals, frozen while living, being re-animated, but I think the brain pretty much knows when it's dead.

I think the whole thing may have been for nothing, bar giving the lady "hope".
 

Roll_On

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If the world is overpopulated in the future, how keen will people be to add to the population by unfreezing folks from the past, even if they could? Maybe that will be one of the political debates of the future..

What legal mechanism would even oblige them to unfreeze someone? You sign a contract with a company in 2016.. probably be worth nothing by 2250.. governments could ban unfreezing anyway...
Developed countires will not become 'overpopulated' They won't be freezing millions of starving Africans, it'll be middle class white folk in western countries with plummeting fertility.
 

Watcher2

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Maybe but if there's a chance it works, it's a perfectly rational choice, it makes more sense than wanting to be left in a box in the ground.
Where are the cryogenic boxers stored? Will you be conscious while in cryostasis? Likely not so I see no difference between being frozen in a box of being buried in a box as regards the person while they are in the box.

I don't think its rational at all to be honest.
 

nicenin

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Sad and odd case case, for sure. The thing that struck me when I heard it on the radio this morning (apart from the points already raised here) is that even if it ever does become possible to bring someone back to life, and the method of storage currently used turns out, by massive luck, to be compatible with this, even then, that surely won't be true for someone who has died of cancer or indeed of any illness?

It seems to me that the only way cryogenics could ever work would be for a person who'd been frozen before major cell damage had already occurred through their illness? Basically you'd have to agree to commit suicide while you were still well. This girl will still have cancer, presumably.
You are correct. That is how it works.
 

Polly Ticks

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Sooooo, they want to be frozen in order to be woken up 200 years hence so they can what, witness new breakthroughs 200 years from now and until their death 50 years later rather than witnessing the breakthroughs that will likely occur over the next 50 years of their life without the cryogenics? Or are you referring to terminally ill 30 year olds whop want to be frozen until a cure is discovered?
I was thinking of the former.

The latter seems like a very reasonable desire.
 

Roll_On

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Sad and odd case case, for sure. The thing that struck me when I heard it on the radio this morning (apart from the points already raised here) is that even if it ever does become possible to bring someone back to life, and the method of storage currently used turns out, by massive luck, to be compatible with this, even then, that surely won't be true for someone who has died of cancer or indeed of any illness?

It seems to me that the only way cryogenics could ever work would be for a person who'd been frozen before major cell damage had already occurred through their illness? Basically you'd have to agree to commit suicide while you were still well. This girl will still have cancer, presumably.
If medical science can successfully reanimate a frozen cell, and indeed a whole body of them, I think it's safe to say the damage caused by cancer would be a non-issue at that point.
 

nicenin

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Sooooo, they want to be frozen in order to be woken up 200 years hence so they can what, witness new breakthroughs 200 years from now and until their death 50 years later rather than witnessing the breakthroughs that will likely occur over the next 50 years of their life without the cryogenics? Or are you referring to terminally ill 30 year olds whop want to be frozen until a cure is discovered?
One thing's for sure: RTE will still be spouting sh1te.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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if its essentially a family dispute where they came around to an agreed position, then it is sorted, I don't see any public policy issue here.

If family want to support a dead person's wishes that is their business.

Objectively its a waste of money but no worse than building a big mausoleum or wanting your dead body or ashes launched into space ...
Yes, absolutely.

It's a tragic case, and it's regrettable that a family dispute has made this public knowledge.

I only hope that we don't now have any comments by clergymen.
 


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