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Giuliani & the Elephant in the Living Room


Destiny's Soldier

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Jul 6, 2007
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Giuliani said in an interview with Peter Jennings on ABC, that he got prior notice of the WTC collapsing before they did actually collapse.

This is incredible stuff and is the Elephant in your living room defecating on your head but you dont know it and deny it's there.

For those who don't understand let me say it again:

The South Tower collapsed in 56 minutes after having being struck by flight 175.

What expert gave this info to Giuliani? As the architects who contructed the towers can testify, the buildings were designed to take multiple hits from a 707.
So anybody who can leave their office in New York City drive at top speed to the South Tower get up to the 80 or so floor, assess the structural damage in the intense smoke and fire, and phone someone, who then tells Giuliani the building is going to collapse and NOT relay the message to the Firemen up there putting out the fire is some feat of achievment.
Who was this structural engineer who made that judgment call all within 45mns of the plane striking the building.
Why wouldnt the firemen up there not see the building being in imminent danger? In fact one fireman just before the onset of collapse said " we have 2 small fires which can be put out". So the fires were not that intense.

I ask rational minded people: how credible is it that all the firemen would miss the possibility of collapse, and one structural engineer could race to the scene, assess the damage, get out alive but not tell the firechiefs all in 45 mins.

You're right it's not credible.
And Giuliani watched 300 or so firefighters and policemen get pulverised to death and couldnt get a message over to the fire chiefs on loudspeaker or radio to say GET OUT the buildings are coming down.

All the more shocking a prediction because NO steel frame building of a similar structure ever collapsed by fire.

Giuliani, when confronted in the You Tube Link, denies he said he had prior knowledge the buildings were coming down and sidesteps the question of who told him. Then he goes on using the term implosion.

Bottom line. Giuliani is a placed operative posing as the saviour when he should be in prison for
1. criminal negligence for not informing the Firemen of the impending collapse:
2. In prison for wreckless endangerment of his firemen and police officers to toxic fumes in the cleanup process afterwards.

Dont give me it was another screw up!

It had to be and can only be an inside job however fantastical that may seem to people.
 

Kf

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I imagine its much simplier, he was probably told they would collapse but not in the speed that it happened.
 

Pidge

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Destiny's Soldier said:
It had to be and can only be an inside job however fantastical that may seem to people.
Premise 1: Giuliani said that he knew the buildings were about to collapse.
Premise 2: The buildings did collapse.
Conclusion: Giuliani planned the whole thing.
 

Destiny's Soldier

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Yes KF but who made that assessment in 45 mins? How could anyone possibly be in a position to assess the structure of the building in such a short period of time?

Supposing Giuliani didnt know the immediacy of the collapse, why has Giuliani not come out and said who told him and have that information thoroughly investigated?

Its totally incredible anyone could have known the buildings could come down at all.

It's the whole essence of the case.
 

Destiny's Soldier

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I would welcome Insiders call on who the Structural Engineer was?

You cannot escape that problem in solving 9/11.
 

youngdan

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I want to debunk those unpatriotic fools who say the nazis burned the Reichstag. We caught that mentally diminished lone nut as fast as we got Oswald. Top notch police work.
 

Conor

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Destiny's Soldier said:
Its totally incredible anyone could have known the buildings could come down at all.
It looked obvious to me they were going to come down. I was surprised they stayed up as long as they did.
 

Riadach

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Or at least there was a chance, and one is considering giving an evacuation order, a chance is more than enough.
 

Pidge

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When I saw the thread title, I thought that it was referring to this:
 

nawbut

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Messages
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me too

Conor said:
Destiny's Soldier said:
Its totally incredible anyone could have known the buildings could come down at all.
It looked obvious to me they were going to come down. I was surprised they stayed up as long as they did.
Me too. I recall while watching the whole thing at the time, thinking (as I suspect most people thought) - jeezuss, those buildings are after being hit by planes, get the f... out of there!
 

KingKane

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Destiny's Soldier said:
I would welcome Insiders call on who the Structural Engineer was?

You cannot escape that problem in solving 9/11.

DS, it is entirely possible that Giuliani was told they would collapse and that they wouldn't collapse but in hind sight only the first piece of advice makes sense. And you wouldn't need to be a structural engineer to suggest the Towers were at risk of collapse after being hit.
 

The OD

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Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,432
Destiny's Soldier said:
Giuliani said in an interview with Peter Jennings on ABC, that he got prior notice of the WTC collapsing before they did actually collapse.

This is incredible stuff and is the Elephant in your living room defecating on your head but you dont know it and deny it's there.

For those who don't understand let me say it again:

The South Tower collapsed in 56 minutes after having being struck by flight 175.

What expert gave this info to Giuliani? As the architects who contructed the towers can testify, the buildings were designed to take multiple hits from a 707.
So anybody who can leave their office in New York City drive at top speed to the South Tower get up to the 80 or so floor, assess the structural damage in the intense smoke and fire, and phone someone, who then tells Giuliani the building is going to collapse and NOT relay the message to the Firemen up there putting out the fire is some feat of achievment.
Who was this structural engineer who made that judgment call all within 45mns of the plane striking the building.
Why wouldnt the firemen up there not see the building being in imminent danger? In fact one fireman just before the onset of collapse said " we have 2 small fires which can be put out". So the fires were not that intense.

I ask rational minded people: how credible is it that all the firemen would miss the possibility of collapse, and one structural engineer could race to the scene, assess the damage, get out alive but not tell the firechiefs all in 45 mins.

You're right it's not credible.
And Giuliani watched 300 or so firefighters and policemen get pulverised to death and couldnt get a message over to the fire chiefs on loudspeaker or radio to say GET OUT the buildings are coming down.

All the more shocking a prediction because NO steel frame building of a similar structure ever collapsed by fire.

Giuliani, when confronted in the You Tube Link, denies he said he had prior knowledge the buildings were coming down and sidesteps the question of who told him. Then he goes on using the term implosion.

Bottom line. Giuliani is a placed operative posing as the saviour when he should be in prison for
1. criminal negligence for not informing the Firemen of the impending collapse:
2. In prison for wreckless endangerment of his firemen and police officers to toxic fumes in the cleanup process afterwards.

Dont give me it was another screw up!

It had to be and can only be an inside job however fantastical that may seem to people.
For gods sake! Leave the man alone, he was going through a marriage break up at the time - the so called 'warning' he got was simply a dig out from a few mates!!!!!

I cant believe people can be so callous......I mean, all the things he did for his city, he's only human.

:roll:
 

TheBear

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May 25, 2004
Messages
234
Destiny's Soldier said:
Yes KF but who made that assessment in 45 mins? How could anyone possibly be in a position to assess the structure of the building in such a short period of time?

Supposing Giuliani didnt know the immediacy of the collapse, why has Giuliani not come out and said who told him and have that information thoroughly investigated?
Is it not possible that someone commented, as Conor and nawbut just have, that it was likely that they would topple, without actually knowing the details. Guiliani mentioned this in passing in an interview, and it was taken out of context/proportion.
 

Dasayev

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Giuliani has used 9/11 for his own political interests since that day. He's even told lies to the 9/11 commission about firefighters disobeying orders to evacuate the North Tower, when in fact they never heard an evacuation order because he didn't provide the firefighters with the proper radios.

Giuliani may be a liar and a self promoter but that doesn't prove he was part of an inside job


International Association of Fire Fighters video

- Giuliani Urban Legend

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCYEEO-58I
 

youngdan

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Jul 9, 2007
Messages
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Dasayev. This dvd was given to each member of that union which is about 300000 in addition to the net viewing as you know. A new poll has him 4th in Iowa behind Huckabee. He is so detested that he will not be able to become the intended straw candidate in the general. I am today however concentrating on Fred going to make an eejit out of himself at 9 Irish time on CNBC when Marie Bartaroma asks him a question in the debate. Tune in for a political comedy show.
 

Dasayev

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Messages
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Destiny's Soldier, did you actually watch the video of the interview with Peter Jennings?

This is what Giuliani says

"I went down to the scene and we set up a headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna' to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit, got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us."

He was warned of the collapse but didn't have enough time to evacuate and he got trapped himself. It happened too quickly for even him to get to safety!
 

TotoElNino

New member
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
1
Hello, I'm a new member here and I'm bumping this as it's related to Rudy and his "Hero of 9/11" persona but likely doesn't warrant a new thread.

In the 7th inning stretch at Yankee Stadium on Monday night (as the Yankees were heading to defeat against the Cleveland Indians) 'God Bless America' was played (as it has since 9/11) and Rudy's pic flashed on the video screen. The fans in the stadium roundly booed in reaction. The mainstream media however seems to have ignored this for some reason (whether in a dismissive or deliberate manner). In a baffling manner (at least to me) so have Rudy's opponents (Republican and Democrat).

This will be a serious missed opportunity to put some heat on the guy unless an opponent moves. The fact that Rudy was booed in his hometown at the stadium of the baseball team he's an avid follower of (hey he get's free tickets, why wouldn't he :p ) should resonate. The line is obvious, "If New Yorkers don't like Rudy, why should anyone else?" or "Yankees fans make their voice heard on Rudy 'the hero'.

Now you'll find this on Newshounds (in the forum) and The Huffington Post. If that doesn't suit you then try:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/10/105530/63
(Dave from Queens who is a Yankees fan and who's entry is the one being re-produced elsewhere most)

or

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/10/y ... hate-rudy/
(Jane Hamsher also a Yankees fan who was there and says Rudy was booed not once but twice).
 

Destiny's Soldier

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Messages
2,364
Dasayev said:
Destiny's Soldier, did you actually watch the video of the interview with Peter Jennings?

This is what Giuliani says

"I went down to the scene and we set up a headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna' to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit, got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us."

He was warned of the collapse but didn't have enough time to evacuate and he got trapped himself. It happened too quickly for even him to get to safety!
Yeah I heard Giuliani. But you've missed the point.

The account of OEM Liasion officer Richard Zarillo goes as follows:

"As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out.

He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the f___ told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down. 2

Although Zarillo describes being directly questioned, both by Fire Marshal Steven Mosiello and by Chief Peter Ganci, about who told him that the buildings were going to collapse, he does not clarify the source of the message beyond the OEM (Office of Emergency Management), where he was "just with John."

Steven Mosiello's account corroborates Zarillo's:
A. At that point I don't know exactly when the Commissioner and Mayor had left. It was pretty soon after they had left that Richie Zarillo, who works with EMS -- I believe he's an OEM liaison -- came running up to me. I was not on the ramp at this time. I was like almost at the sidewalk location.

He said Steve, where's the Chief? I have to tell him, you know -- I said tell him what, Richie? These buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. I said how do you know that, you know? So he ran with me. I ran over and grabbed Chief Ganci and said Chief, these buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. 3

References

1. Text: Giuliani on Rescue Efforts, WashingtonPost.com, 9/12/01
2. World Trade Center Task Force Interview: EMT Richard Zarrillo, New York Times, 10/25/01
3. World Trade Center Task Force Interview: Fire Marshal Steven Mosiello, New York Times, 10/23/01


Now the point which people are missing is that a Liasion (Zarillo) from where Giuliani just was, legged it over to the WTC and advised the fire Chief that the buildings were in Imminent danger of collapse.

Giuliani said he thought it was over a series of hours later, not imminently, that the buildings were going to collapse. How could that be? The liasion of OEM had just warned the fire chiefs the buildings were coming down immediately. How could Giuliani's liasion tell the firefighters it was imminent and Giuliani not understand it himself.

But the whole idea that anyone could have predicted the building were going to collapse in 45mins is absolute total and utter nonsense.
The response of the Chief Ganci to the notion of an imminent collapse corroborates that.

There wasn't a structural engineer on the planet who could have predicted the buildings were going to collapse because there was no precedent for it.

Giuliani should have been immediately suspicious of the person who said the building was coming down. And the fact that he is not means he is either a fool or a knave.

Hearing him debate, you know he's pretty sharp minded. So a fool he is not.
 
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