Glasgow Rangers and NI Unionism

Covenanter

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Watching Rangers defeat of Celtic today it occurred to me that the match was a sort of metaphor for unionism in Northern Ireland. Celtic fans had rejoiced in their arch enemies being kicked out of the SPL and had widely predicted their demise just as republicans have consistently announced that unonists are on their way out. The reality was that Celtic suffered from lack of revenue because there were no Old Firm games and they failed to shine against lesser teams. Rangers on the other hand retained its loyal support and fought its way back into the SPL and today defeated Celtic after a hard fought game.

In Northern Ireland republicans have long been crowing about the inevitable demise of unionism because of their disgusting reliance on a sectarian head count. The reality has been a declining republican vote combined with an increasing unionist vote (largely due to the flag dispute) and both the Life and Times and Spotlight polls showing little support for a united Ireland. This in the very year that SF predicted a united Ireland would happen.

Republicans have been predicting victory now for close on a hundred years and dismissing unionists as being irrelevant. It must be a gigantic pain in the posterior for them that unionism continues to triumph just as Rangers did today. Pragmatism continues to win over fantasy.
 


Dame_Enda

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On the polls yes but on the other hand the poll also showed that the Catholic support for a UI increases if they are told it will make them better off economically - in sharp contrast to Unionism. And a Canadian thinktank recently reported (a thread was started about it here some time ago) that a UI could benefit NI economically. Personally I think NI could benefit from the South's economic ties to Irish-America.
 

former wesleyan

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Presume the Famine Song songsheet is being dusted off. Spare us all from this sectarian drivel.
 

theloner

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I've literally seen it all now. :D
 

blinding

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Two bad teams play a football match.

One of the bad teams wins the football match.

Some not very bright people think that one of the bad teams beating (or vice versa) the other bad team is important.

There is not much important going on in the lives of those that are that interested in two bad teams.
 

Northsideman

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Things have changed - not that long ago there would have been rioting in areas of Belfast and Derry because of this.
Which goes to show how mad this is, 2 p!ss poor foreign teams and idiots in Ireland getting wound up about them, do me a favour.
 

Glaucon

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Rangers and Celtic need each other to prosper. Or both need to go to the EPL (which the SFA refuses to countenance).
 

eoghanacht

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Anybody kicked to death to celebrate the victory of the tax evasion 11?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Republicans have been predicting victory now for close on a hundred years and dismissing unionists as being irrelevant. It must be a gigantic pain in the posterior for them that unionism continues to triumph just as Rangers did today. Pragmatism continues to win over fantasy.
And therein lies the problem. Unionism is still foolishly 'triumphalist' and under the self induced illusion that their 'wee country' is a democratic country with a legitimate right to exist, whilst Republican's continue to view it as a legacy and remnant of British imperialism; a partition of their country, and in effect, a six county inverted colony still under British foreign rule.

No-one is expecting Unionist's to suddenly dig themselves out of their egocentric trench and begin viewing the territorial dispute from a Republican and Nationalist perspective, as that would mean having to face up to some uncomfortable historical home truths. But if they were 'pragmatic' , as opposed to myopic fantasists, they would recognise their place in Irish history and the conveyer belt that they are currently on, which is moving slowly to the end of the colonial era, and towards Irish reunification and full independence.

Unionist's are not irrelevant. In a united Ireland they shall constitute approximately 20% of the Irish populace, as opposed to 2% (or whatever the figure is) of the UK populace presently. What Unionist's need to do is take the blinkers off, abandon Ulster Unionism and anachronistic Loyalism, and embrace Ulster pragmatism and Irish rationalism.

We cannot deny anyone their fundamental human right to be themselves, and if Unionist's insist that they are British citizens, Republican's cannot take that away from them. There is a place for British citizen's in Ireland and the onus is on Republican's to communicate to Unionists in no uncertain terms that NI is an artificial state created on the basis of a sectarian head count in 1921; the existence of which runs counter to the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland as demonstrated in the IGE of 1918. Partition was only supposed to last 6 years, and was a British governmental contrivance designed to avoid all out war with their colonial offspring in the North-Eastern corner, and to help ease them into Irish home rule and the newly created Irish Free State.

Almost a century later, a colonial minority in conjunction with a foreign British government is sustaining partition and keeping six counties of Ulster and Ireland under foreign British rule. But after 400 years, Unionist's are not foreigners. They are Irish like the rest of us, only their allegiances are different. If they were 'pragmatic' they would be finally relinquishing the 'no surrender' mentality and attempting to assimilate themselves into Irish national culture in preparation for their future.

But assimilation was never the intent of the colonist. It was suppression of Irish national language and culture. That escapade failed. Ireland did not lie down and become a little Britian. Instead of burning the Irish flag in July, Unionist's should be celebrating the representation of the Orange in the Irish national flag, and their rightful place in a united, peaceful and truly democratic Ireland.

As regards Old Firm derbies, they're simply sectarian, tribalist, hate-fest's masquerading as a sporting activity. It provides the ne'er-do-wells on both sides with an opportunity to vent their vitriol, with a little soccer thrown in for camouflage.
 

between the bridges

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And therein lies the problem. Unionism is still foolishly 'triumphalist' and under the self induced illusion that their 'wee country' is a democratic country with a legitimate right to exist, whilst Republican's continue to view it as a legacy and remnant of British imperialism; a partition of their country, and in effect, a six county inverted colony still under British foreign rule.

No-one is expecting Unionist's to suddenly dig themselves out of their egocentric trench and begin viewing the territorial dispute from a Republican and Nationalist perspective, as that would mean having to face up to some uncomfortable historical home truths. But if they were 'pragmatic' , as opposed to myopic fantasists, they would recognise their place in Irish history and the conveyer belt that they are currently on, which is moving slowly to the end of the colonial era, and towards Irish reunification and full independence.

Unionist's are not irrelevant. In a united Ireland they shall constitute approximately 20% of the Irish populace, as opposed to 2% (or whatever the figure is) of the UK populace presently. What Unionist's need to do is take the blinkers off, abandon Ulster Unionism and anachronistic Loyalism, and embrace Ulster pragmatism and Irish rationalism.

We cannot deny anyone their fundamental human right to be themselves, and if Unionist's insist that they are British citizens, Republican's cannot take that away from them. There is a place for British citizen's in Ireland and the onus is on Republican's to communicate to Unionists in no uncertain terms that NI is an artificial state created on the basis of a sectarian head count in 1921; the existence of which runs counter to the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland as demonstrated in the IGE of 1918. Partition was only supposed to last 6 years, and was a British governmental contrivance designed to avoid all out war with their colonial offspring in the North-Eastern corner, and to help ease them into Irish home rule and the newly created Irish Free State.

Almost a century later, a colonial minority in conjunction with a foreign British government is sustaining partition and keeping six counties of Ulster and Ireland under foreign British rule. But after 400 years, Unionist's are not foreigners. They are Irish like the rest of us, only their allegiances are different. If they were 'pragmatic' they would be finally relinquishing the 'no surrender' mentality and attempting to assimilate themselves into Irish national culture in preparation for their future.

But assimilation was never the intent of the colonist. It was suppression of Irish national language and culture. That escapade failed. Ireland did not lie down and become a little Britian. Instead of burning the Irish flag in July, Unionist's should be celebrating the representation of the Orange in the Irish national flag, and their rightful place in a united, peaceful and truly democratic Ireland.

As regards Old Firm derbies, they're simply sectarian, tribalist, hate-fest's masquerading as a sporting activity. It provides the ne'er-do-wells on both sides with an opportunity to vent their vitriol, with a little soccer thrown in for camouflage.
Whaaaaaaa themuns whàaaaaaaa...
 

Covenanter

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On the polls yes but on the other hand the poll also showed that the Catholic support for a UI increases if they are told it will make them better off economically - in sharp contrast to Unionism. And a Canadian thinktank recently reported (a thread was started about it here some time ago) that a UI could benefit NI economically. Personally I think NI could benefit from the South's economic ties to Irish-America.
Didn't it turn out that the think tank in question had been commissioned by the Sinners?
 

Covenanter

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Things have changed - not that long ago there would have been rioting in areas of Belfast and Derry because of this.
I think they may have been too stunned to riot.
 

Covenanter

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Is this a serious thread? Rangers weren't 'kicked out' - they went bust because they couldn't afford to pay their tax bill. It was the result of series of mismanagement blunders that were their own fault.

Celtic's problems are down to poor management on both the playing and boardroom sides. Celtic arent suffering because of lost revenue due to Rangers' demise. The failure to qualify for the Champions League has been much more of an issue. Celtic still have more money than Rangers and are clearly on a better financial footing.

The celebration from Rangers fans has been way over the top - they won a cup tie on penalties, against the worst Celtic team in memory.

Celtic have been and remain the reigning champions, Rangers have a long way to go to topple them from their perch.

I wish SevcoRangers all the best in their first season in the Scottish Premier League.
You took it well then.
 

Covenanter

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Rangers and Celtic need each other to prosper. Or both need to go to the EPL (which the SFA refuses to countenance).
Yes, but Celtic fans didn't consider that when they were crowing about Rangers supposed demise.
 

Covenanter

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Covenanter

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And therein lies the problem. Unionism is still foolishly 'triumphalist' and under the self induced illusion that their 'wee country' is a democratic country with a legitimate right to exist, whilst Republican's continue to view it as a legacy and remnant of British imperialism; a partition of their country, and in effect, a six county inverted colony still under British foreign rule.

No-one is expecting Unionist's to suddenly dig themselves out of their egocentric trench and begin viewing the territorial dispute from a Republican and Nationalist perspective, as that would mean having to face up to some uncomfortable historical home truths. But if they were 'pragmatic' , as opposed to myopic fantasists, they would recognise their place in Irish history and the conveyer belt that they are currently on, which is moving slowly to the end of the colonial era, and towards Irish reunification and full independence.

Unionist's are not irrelevant. In a united Ireland they shall constitute approximately 20% of the Irish populace, as opposed to 2% (or whatever the figure is) of the UK populace presently. What Unionist's need to do is take the blinkers off, abandon Ulster Unionism and anachronistic Loyalism, and embrace Ulster pragmatism and Irish rationalism.

We cannot deny anyone their fundamental human right to be themselves, and if Unionist's insist that they are British citizens, Republican's cannot take that away from them. There is a place for British citizen's in Ireland and the onus is on Republican's to communicate to Unionists in no uncertain terms that NI is an artificial state created on the basis of a sectarian head count in 1921; the existence of which runs counter to the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland as demonstrated in the IGE of 1918. Partition was only supposed to last 6 years, and was a British governmental contrivance designed to avoid all out war with their colonial offspring in the North-Eastern corner, and to help ease them into Irish home rule and the newly created Irish Free State.

Almost a century later, a colonial minority in conjunction with a foreign British government is sustaining partition and keeping six counties of Ulster and Ireland under foreign British rule. But after 400 years, Unionist's are not foreigners. They are Irish like the rest of us, only their allegiances are different. If they were 'pragmatic' they would be finally relinquishing the 'no surrender' mentality and attempting to assimilate themselves into Irish national culture in preparation for their future.

But assimilation was never the intent of the colonist. It was suppression of Irish national language and culture. That escapade failed. Ireland did not lie down and become a little Britian. Instead of burning the Irish flag in July, Unionist's should be celebrating the representation of the Orange in the Irish national flag, and their rightful place in a united, peaceful and truly democratic Ireland.

As regards Old Firm derbies, they're simply sectarian, tribalist, hate-fest's masquerading as a sporting activity. It provides the ne'er-do-wells on both sides with an opportunity to vent their vitriol, with a little soccer thrown in for camouflage.
A lot of contradictory stuff in that post which I think sums up the republican mindset quite well. You can't deny us the right to be ourselves, but we should reject everything that we stand for and become republicans. We are not foreigners, but we should abandon our nationality and culture and become your version of Irish. The people who wave the tricolour in Northern Ireland hate us. They have made that very clear by waging a thirty five year murder campaign against us and by their continuous attacks on our culture, which of course they utterly deride. The problem with Irish republicanism is that those who espouse its supposed ideals tend to be sectarian bigots who are very pragmatic about ignoring the bits which are supposed to be about embracing unionists.
 

Dubstudent

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Watching Rangers defeat of Celtic today it occurred to me that the match was a sort of metaphor for unionism in Northern Ireland. Celtic fans had rejoiced in their arch enemies being kicked out of the SPL and had widely predicted their demise just as republicans have consistently announced that unonists are on their way out. The reality was that Celtic suffered from lack of revenue because there were no Old Firm games and they failed to shine against lesser teams. Rangers on the other hand retained its loyal support and fought its way back into the SPL and today defeated Celtic after a hard fought game.
Just so we have this straight, you were píssed when you wrote this right?

Hilarious.
 


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