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Good news: Bombardier 4bn GBP order


factual

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BBC News - Bombardier Belfast welcomes £4.8bn jet deal

Literally the biggest ever order for a firm £4.5BN!!!

Superb news for Bombardier Shorts which is part of the supply chain for this order.

"This order - the largest ever business aircraft sale in Bombardier's history - will help to sustain jobs and secure our long-term future, in addition to benefiting our local supply chain," it said.
The composite horizontal stabiliser is made in Belfast
"Bombardier in Belfast is responsible for the design and manufacture of a range of parts for the global aircraft family, including the forward fuselages, engine nacelles, horizontal stabilisers and other components."
 

ArtyisBack

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This is one old industry that is holding on. It and the Martin Baker legacy. However there is a problem. This is also an industry that is on decline here. The excellent tradition of aeronautical design and Queens turning out good engineers keep it alive. But it it under threat. At least this keeps the place in business although I do not know for how long. So long as there are high end engineering it will stay. I however see this as an industry which will be under threat in a few years as the emerging nations start to take on this work. After all the short flight industry will be "taking of" in the Asian, African and South American countries. IT only makes sense for the supply chain to be shortened as per FG Wilson and to move the wages to cheaper areas as per the shirt factories.
 

oxterSniffer

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This is one old industry that is holding on. It and the Martin Baker legacy. However there is a problem. This is also an industry that is on decline here. The excellent tradition of aeronautical design and Queens turning out good engineers keep it alive. But it it under threat. At least this keeps the place in business although I do not know for how long. So long as there are high end engineering it will stay. I however see this as an industry which will be under threat in a few years as the emerging nations start to take on this work. After all the short flight industry will be "taking of" in the Asian, African and South American countries. IT only makes sense for the supply chain to be shortened as per FG Wilson and to move the wages to cheaper areas as per the shirt factories.
Wages are rapidly increasing in China -- couple that with advancements in robotics and automation and the trend of manufacturing away from the west is expected to reverse. Cheap labour will never be a substitute for a skilled workforce in Engineering. (the latter we are indeed losing and must put priority back to reclaiming)

One way to also develop industry is not to rely on disloyal foreign companies to do it for us. Rather we need British public money kick-starting British enterprise (instead of going towards a lot of useless welfare scroungers, government quangos and commissions).
 
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ArtyisBack

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Wages are rapidly increasing in China -- couple that with advancements in robotics and automation and the trend of manufacturing away from the west is expected to reverse. Cheap labour will never be a substitute for a skilled workforce in Engineering. (the latter we are indeed losing and must put priority back to reclaiming)

One way to also develop industry is not to rely on disloyal foreign companies to do it for us. Rather we need British public money kick-starting British enterprise (instead of going towards a lot of useless welfare scroungers, government quangos and commissions).
Wishful thinking
 

oxterSniffer

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Wishful thinking
I am someone of an Engineering background, and I can assure you that the advances in robotics are so much so that automated manufacturing and assembly becoming extremely affordable and more effective than manual cheap labour will ever be.
 

ArtyisBack

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I am someone of an Engineering background, and I can assure you that the advances in robotics are so much so that automated manufacturing and assembly becoming extremely affordable and more effective than manual cheap labour will ever be.
I can see that - but they can be ran abroad too. And they are closer to the market and the industries that still require high labour and therefore cheap labour
 
C

Castle Ray

This is one old industry that is holding on. It and the Martin Baker legacy. However there is a problem. This is also an industry that is on decline here. The excellent tradition of aeronautical design and Queens turning out good engineers keep it alive. But it it under threat. At least this keeps the place in business although I do not know for how long. So long as there are high end engineering it will stay. I however see this as an industry which will be under threat in a few years as the emerging nations start to take on this work. After all the short flight industry will be "taking of" in the Asian, African and South American countries. IT only makes sense for the supply chain to be shortened as per FG Wilson and to move the wages to cheaper areas as per the shirt factories.
Why is it in decline? Bombardier invested £1/2 billion in a new factory here only 3-4 years ago. FG Wilson is completely different from Bombardier.
 

ArtyisBack

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oxterSniffer

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Hina
I can see that - but they can be ran abroad too. And they are closer to the market and the industries that still require high labour and therefore cheap labour
Indeed machines can be run abroad too, but the people who design many of the products manufacturered in China are mainly in the West. There are huge benefits in having a close link between those who design and their manufacture. Having had the personal experience myself of designing electronics and mechanical parts and then being in contact with factories in Ningbo, Taipei etc., I can attest that communications are an absolute nightmare, with many costly mistakes and delays being made when requesting things like product design revisions etc. Then there are the costly delays in shipping and all the effort wasted in organising this.

The market is also global, with most of our products already being shipped in containers from China via Rotterdam as it is, so closeness to the market doesn't really cut it for me for most products as we already ARE closer to an end-market if made locally (FG Wilson not being the be-all-and-end-all here). We have a massive advantage also in speaking English, in being the lingua franca, and language of science and technology, as well as a marketing advantage in this respect.
 
C

Castle Ray

Duke opens £16m centre at FG Wilson - Local Businesses - Belfast Newsletter

Love the line "we look forward to further development at Larne in the next few years,”
That's a centre of excellence not a production or assembly line. There are no engines made at FG Wilson, they are all bought in from Perkins, and there were very few redundancies in the design and specialist areas. £16m is a long way from the type of investment of £500m. But I'm sure you know that.
 

ArtyisBack

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That's a centre of excellence not a production or assembly line. There are no engines made at FG Wilson, they are all bought in from Perkins, and there were very few redundancies in the design and specialist areas. £16m is a long way from the type of investment of £500m. But I'm sure you know that.

Certainly do - but that was a series of investments. Just google it. At the end of the day if the slide rule says move Bombardier will move. And if there is nothing to hold them they will. This is a business that can easily be moved and once it becomes viable to move it will. Let us face it. Shorts/Bombardier have had no compunction in the past when it came to cutting jobs.
 
C

Castle Ray

Certainly do - but that was a series of investments. Just google it. At the end of the day if the slide rule says move Bombardier will move. And if there is nothing to hold them they will. This is a business that can easily be moved and once it becomes viable to move it will. Let us face it. Shorts/Bombardier have had no compunction in the past when it came to cutting jobs.
There are 5000 jobs in Bombardier Shorts. There is no recruitment or redundancies guaranteed. Any increase in jobs will be complimentary workforce only. NI would not let Shorts move. There would be a massive move to ensure it remained here as the cost to NI society would be even bigger without it. There is no evidence to suggest that the firm is doing anything other than well without major government intervention. The C-Series is a high-risk strategy and whilst cash is tight, it is a strategy that is seemingly paying off. Fair play to Bombardier and the local team at Shorts.

What surprised me was the Political ignorance of what was happening at FG Wilson since the summer. The Politicians in East Antrim, South Antrim and West Belfast were caught sleeping and exposed as such.
 

Gurdiev

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I can see that - but they can be ran abroad too. And they are closer to the market and the industries that still require high labour and therefore cheap labour
If Germany and Italy can keep a manufacturing base competitive, there's no reason wht NI can't .
The engineering background and skills levels are there . THe UK seemed to give up on manufacturing too easily, in favour of financial services. That works for London , but not the regions.
 

InsideImDancing

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If Germany and Italy can keep a manufacturing base competitive, there's no reason wht NI can't .
The engineering background and skills levels are there . THe UK seemed to give up on manufacturing too easily, in favour of financial services. That works for London , but not the regions.
Exactly, Thatcher has a lot to answer for!
 
J

Johnny Boy

Well done, Factual. I trust you will personally pass on my thanks to Marty and Gerry at the next Ard Fheis.:)
 

Tommythesash

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The MacBride Principles will be applied here to ensure fair employment. The days of unionist domination and sectarianism in the workplace are over. You can thank us Americans for this.
 

ArtyisBack

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There are 5000 jobs in Bombardier Shorts. There is no recruitment or redundancies guaranteed. Any increase in jobs will be complimentary workforce only. NI would not let Shorts move. There would be a massive move to ensure it remained here as the cost to NI society would be even bigger without it. There is no evidence to suggest that the firm is doing anything other than well without major government intervention. The C-Series is a high-risk strategy and whilst cash is tight, it is a strategy that is seemingly paying off. Fair play to Bombardier and the local team at Shorts.

What surprised me was the Political ignorance of what was happening at FG Wilson since the summer. The Politicians in East Antrim, South Antrim and West Belfast were caught sleeping and exposed as such.
You could have said the same for the Yard - or for British Steel in areas of England, or the Coal mines. if it is to go it will. The EU has ensured that the shoring up of industry is no longer permitted, and the rules are to be tightened next year. Again that is all wishful thinking. It will go if the economic conditions say so.
 

ArtyisBack

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Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
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If Germany and Italy can keep a manufacturing base competitive, there's no reason wht NI can't .
The engineering background and skills levels are there . THe UK seemed to give up on manufacturing too easily, in favour of financial services. That works for London , but not the regions.
Keep that line of thinking
 

ArtyisBack

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
6,090
There are 5000 jobs in Bombardier Shorts. There is no recruitment or redundancies guaranteed. Any increase in jobs will be complimentary workforce only. NI would not let Shorts move. There would be a massive move to ensure it remained here as the cost to NI society would be even bigger without it. There is no evidence to suggest that the firm is doing anything other than well without major government intervention. The C-Series is a high-risk strategy and whilst cash is tight, it is a strategy that is seemingly paying off. Fair play to Bombardier and the local team at Shorts.

What surprised me was the Political ignorance of what was happening at FG Wilson since the summer. The Politicians in East Antrim, South Antrim and West Belfast were caught sleeping and exposed as such.
Mmmm - everyone knew it was on the cards. There was just no alternative. It was inevitable.
 
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