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Government in pending legislation should avoid flirting with sitting tenancies to keep landlords investing in housing

Patslatt1

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The government's past moves in the rental market motivated by political expediency have caused the housing crisis. Rent controls provide temporary relief to existing tenants but discourage new housing supply and optimal occupancies in the available supply. The price is paid by new tenants entering the market who are faced with rocketing rents on housing supply lower than it should be.
Only belatedly has the government taken serious steps in recent years to prevent NIMBY objectors supported by most Dublin councillors from hobbling desperately needed new housing.
But in a step or leap backwards, pending legislation could prove to be a major deterrent to landlords' investment in housing. See 'It is an emergency' - Eviction to be banned for long-term renters - Independent.ie The government under pressure from hard lefties is flirting with the concept of sitting tenancies where the landlord is stuck with a tenant for life. Few landlords would invest with a sitting tenant law unless starting rental yields (annual rent as a % of the house price) were way higher than at present, requiring still another massive jump in rents. The obvious problem with sitting tenancies is the erosion of property rights and the implied risk of very damaging rent controls.
 


Buchaill Dana

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Hard lefties? What? Security of tenure and rebt control happen almost everywhere, including the States.

Yet again, you nearly got it.
 

Patslatt1

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Hard lefties? What? Security of tenure and rebt control happen almost everywhere, including the States.

Yet again, you nearly got it.
A few US cities have rent controls, mainly New York where strict controls from WW2 created vast dystopian slums in low income areas of the Bronx and Brooklyn. Security of tenure is confined typically to one year leases in quality US rental housing. The UK abndoned rent controls in the 1980s after bad experience with a new breed of ruthless landlords who got around controls by intimidating tenants into vacating. Also, new housing supply needed encouragement from higher market rents after lifting controls.
Continental Europe has controls that if strict usually create shortages of housing except in areas of falling population like East Germany.
 

wombat

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Hard lefties? What? Security of tenure and rebt control happen almost everywhere, including the States.
Both will work where large rental companies interested in long term steady income are dominant. Property companies are more interested in steady income than our buy to flip landlords, its why the Indo fears them.
 

carlovian

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Amazing how normal tenants rights in other countries are feared here.

All landlords will apparently leave the market if there is security of tenure, ignoring record rents.
 

Patslatt1

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Both will work where large rental companies interested in long term steady income are dominant. Property companies are more interested in steady income than our buy to flip landlords, its why the Indo fears them.
Buying to flip is for a small minority.The real money is made by patiently waiting as the mortgage runs down from rental income while the house value increases over time aka leveraged finance.
 

Patslatt1

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Amazing how normal tenants rights in other countries are feared here.

All landlords will apparently leave the market if there is security of tenure, ignoring record rents.
Record rents for now are protected by very low inflation. There is a high risk that rent controls could become permanent as often happens with temporary controls and that rent increases could become sparse under the influence of lefty politics. If sitting tenancies return, a very big increase in rents will be demanded for new housing investment to compensate for diluted property rights.
 

carlovian

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Record rents for now are protected by very low inflation. There is a high risk that rent controls could become permanent as often happens with temporary controls and that rent increases could become sparse under the influence of lefty politics. If sitting tenancies return, a very big increase in rents will be demanded for new housing investment to compensate for diluted property rights.
Rents are way above record levels

What rent inflation do you think is fair ?
 

Patslatt1

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Rents are way above record levels

What rent inflation do you think is fair ?
In Economics 101, the answer is inflation in the level of market rents needed to increase supply and curb demand, achieving a balanced market. Hopefully,belated government measures to increase housing supply will succeed and maybe even reduce rents going by the numerous tower cranes in Dublin. It will be interesting to see how NIMBY voters and their councillor allies react to increased supply under Bord Pleanala's fast tracked planning and the increase in heights of rental housing buildings to 21 stories.
 

Dame_Enda

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This sounds a bit drastic, and Im not exactly a fan of the status quo.

The Vulture funds are to blame for much of this. The American slash and burn style of capitalism, remorselessly running over its 'collateral damage' is now firmly embedded. Something must be done, but a blanket ban on evictions might not be the solution. If the tenants are anti social neighbours from hell, of the kind documentaries are made of, then they should not be allowed avail of this.

The Refurbishment Loophole and Relatives moving in Loophole should be closed, so that they mean in practice what they are supposed to mean. The practice of evictions under false pretences for refurbishment or to move in relatives does need tackling.
 

Patslatt1

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This sounds a bit drastic, and Im not exactly a fan of the status quo.

The Vulture funds are to blame for much of this. The American slash and burn style of capitalism, remorselessly running over its 'collateral damage' is now firmly embedded. Something must be done, but a blanket ban on evictions might not be the solution. If the tenants are anti social neighbours from hell, of the kind documentaries are made of, then they should not be allowed avail of this.

The Refurbishment Loophole and Relatives moving in Loophole should be closed, so that they mean in practice what they are supposed to mean. The practice of evictions under false pretences for refurbishment or to move in relatives does need tackling.
I assume you are not a landlord and suffer from envy of the rich.
Vulture funds that specialise in property provide a service in REITS, real estate investment trusts that invest in high rise or high density property for rent. As professional landlords, they are generally preferred by tenants to many small landlords.
In the tight supply and shortage of housing, the funds' buying can drive up prices and temporarily displace people buying houses to live in. Until reforms introduced a few years ago,that shortage was caused by massive planning red tape and vexatious NIMBY appeals that hobbled housing building in Dublin. The money paid by the vulture funds for housing has been reinvested to some extent in new housing projects. There are a lot of projects underway in Dublin going by the high number of tower cranes.
Vulture funds played an important role in the financial crash by buying distressed loans of banks and depressed government bonds of Greece and Ireland. They went in where angels feared to tread.
 
Last edited:

Patslatt1

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Amazing how normal tenants rights in other countries are feared here.

All landlords will apparently leave the market if there is security of tenure, ignoring record rents.
A lot of tenant rights as defined by hard lefties can wreck rental housing supply.
A few US cities have rent controls, mainly New York where strict controls from WW2 created vast dystopian slums in low income areas of the Bronx and Brooklyn. Security of tenure is confined typically to one year leases in quality US rental housing. The UK abndoned rent controls in the 1980s after bad experience with a new breed of ruthless landlords who got around controls by intimidating tenants into vacating. Also, new housing supply needed encouragement from higher market rents after lifting controls.
Continental Europe has controls that if strict usually create shortages of housing except in areas of falling population like East Germany.
 
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Sep 16, 2012
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6,195
The government's past moves in the rental market motivated by political expediency have caused the housing crisis. Rent controls provide temporary relief to existing tenants but discourage new housing supply and optimal occupancies in the available supply. The price is paid by new tenants entering the market who are faced with rocketing rents on housing supply lower than it should be.
Only belatedly has the government taken serious steps in recent years to prevent NIMBY objectors supported by most Dublin councillors from hobbling desperately needed new housing.
But in a step or leap backwards, pending legislation could prove to be a major deterrent to landlords' investment in housing. See 'It is an emergency' - Eviction to be banned for long-term renters - Independent.ie The government under pressure from hard lefties is flirting with the concept of sitting tenancies where the landlord is stuck with a tenant for life. Few landlords would invest with a sitting tenant law unless starting rental yields (annual rent as a % of the house price) were way higher than at present, requiring still another massive jump in rents. The obvious problem with sitting tenancies is the erosion of property rights and the implied risk of very damaging rent controls.
Good, housing is a right, not a commodity, the state should be the sole provider of housing in this country.

Landlords are parasites, they contribute NOTHING to society.
 

Patslatt1

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Good, housing is a right, not a commodity, the state should be the sole provider of housing in this country.

Landlords are parasites, they contribute NOTHING to society.
Good sex is a right so let's nationalise the women and give every man his chance when the Red Revolution comes!
If the government and its councils got out of the way and let builders build without NIMBYS hiding behind precious environmental red tape, there would be no housing shortages given the huge land area per head. Texas where you can't be denied the right to build freely on your land should be the model for Irish cities.
You should have more respect for your social betters such as landlords. Envy, jealousy and begrudgery will only give you heart attacks.
 
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Sweet Darling

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Good, housing is a right, not a commodity, the state should be the sole provider of housing in this country.

Landlords are parasites, they contribute NOTHING to society.
Just like in Cuba. Which is one big 3rd world housing slum.
Land lords provide a service to people who wish for what ever reason to rent.
They are not in the business of social housing. As can be seen by a law having to be enacted to force landlords to take welfare tenants.
 

Patslatt1

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Just like in Cuba. Which is one big 3rd world housing slum.
Land lords provide a service to people who wish for what ever reason to rent.
They are not in the business of social housing. As can be seen by a law having to be enacted to force landlords to take welfare tenants.
If NIMBY barriers to building houses were lifted, even social welfare recipients and low income people could easily afford the resulting low rents.
 

Sweet Darling

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If NIMBY barriers to building houses were lifted, even social welfare recipients and low income people could easily afford the resulting low rents.
Nail on the head.
The shinner and that nut from the Labour party all dancing for the nimby vote
 


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