• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

Government's Climate Action Plan

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,643
The general climate change thread consists mainly of arguments between believers and deniers so I'm proposing that a new thread be started where policy issues relating to state actions can be discussed. This will allow us to discuss the actions being proposed by Irish parties to reduce our carbon emissions and how they will effect our lifestyle separate from the NASA charts, website links etc which are favoured on the general climate change thread.
 


wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,643
The Governments policy on this seems to be how much money can we milk from the middle earners. It is just a money grab nothing more nothing less .
From what I have read so far, the plan is to make the increased carbon tax neutral by returning the revenue raised elsewhere. However, there are a lot more changes proposed which will impact how we live. I have doubts about how they will get 70% of our electricity from renewables although it may be that the interconnector to France will allow that to happen. The switch to electric cars is based, I think, on the assumption that they will become affordable and that the batteries will improve sufficiently to make them practicable.
 

cytex

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
3,413
From what I have read so far, the plan is to make the increased carbon tax neutral by returning the revenue raised elsewhere. However, there are a lot more changes proposed which will impact how we live. I have doubts about how they will get 70% of our electricity from renewables although it may be that the interconnector to France will allow that to happen. The switch to electric cars is based, I think, on the assumption that they will become affordable and that the batteries will improve sufficiently to make them practicable.
Can you give a link on this . From what I read they plan on helping the lower and high earners screwing the middle earners as usual.

To me this is the most important change to how we live as it means less money in my pocket due to yet another tax grab .
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,643
Can you give a link on this .
No - they haven't decided on how much carbon tax will rise nor what will be done with the revenue, all I have heard are options and speculation.
 

Turbinator

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
1,814
Clearly a rushed job with little or no CBA done on converting the entire traffic fleet to battery power etc.. Again government Departments fail to do the necessary research on the actual environmental implications of such things, such as the requirement for a massive increase in the destructive and energy intensive mining of rare earth metals etc. or the fact that our grid without nuclear will always be reliant on fossil fuel. The only bit of common-sense I could see in the plan relates to reducing plastic usage and restore a significant acerage of cut-over boglands
 

recedite

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
1,411
I have doubts about how they will get 70% of our electricity from renewables although it may be that the interconnector to France will allow that to happen. The switch to electric cars is based, I think, on the assumption that they will become affordable and that the batteries will improve sufficiently to make them practicable.
French electricity would be largely nuclear. I wouldn't call that "renewable" as such, though it would be an alternative to fossil fuels.

Electric cars are good enough right now, but they are still to expensive even with a grant.
If VAT/VRT were dropped, would they be cheaper than a similar sized petrol car?

If oil and gas boilers are banned, and petrol and diesel vehicles are banned, where is all the electricity going to come from? Gas fired power stations?

If I drive with 4 passengers in a car, why can't I drive in the bus lane, while a taxi driver waiting for passengers is cruising along aimlessly in it?

If I install solar PV panels on my roof, why am I not allowed to sell this renewable electricity into the national grid? Its produced at the exact time of peak demand after all. Germans and Brits get paid handsomely for producing this premium product.

Lots of questions that need to be answered right now. But instead the politicians pronounce bans that will come into effect in a few years time, well after the next elections. In other words, further into the future than they would ever contemplate in any serious way.
 

Iarmuid

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,646
From what I have read so far, the plan is to make the increased carbon tax neutral by returning the revenue raised elsewhere. However, there are a lot more changes proposed which will impact how we live. I have doubts about how they will get 70% of our electricity from renewables although it may be that the interconnector to France will allow that to happen. The switch to electric cars is based, I think, on the assumption that they will become affordable and that the batteries will improve sufficiently to make them practicable.
Beyond the "international commitment" line [which are self imposed]. To what end are these policies actually for? How much will these policies actually impact the weather or alleviate Global warming and if so by when?
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
837
Ireland has a history of missed emissions targets so hard to see this plan achieving them especially when there are no indications of a cutback in the growth of agricultural exports. Too many TDs and too much local politics to make real progress.

Will be great if there is a rapid expansion in electric vehicle charging points in workplaces etc. and the necessary retrofits in dwellings energy efficiency to make heat pumps a viable option. Bottom line though is that we are spending four billion on harmful subsidies and an increase in the carbon tax to 30 euro will not make much of a dent in that: https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2019/0604/1053483-damaging-subsidies/

The Government needs to spell out how those most in need (the elderly poor especially) will benefit from the plan but it is lacking in real detail because of an unwillingness to identify those who will have to pay more..
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,643
French electricity would be largely nuclear. ......
Electric cars are good enough right now, but they are still to expensive even with a grant.
I think the interconnectors to the UK and France are "Yes Minister" responses to the political imperative not to use the "N" word. The only reliable alternative at present to fossil fuels cannot be considered. Regarding electric cars at present, if they can serve your car needs, you probably don't need a car. I have no idea why they are so expensive, hybrids are cheaper and have a petrol engine as well as a battery and electric motor. The only reason that I can think of is that battery costs rise exponentially above a certain capacity.
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,845
Can you give a link on this . From what I read they plan on helping the lower and high earners screwing the middle earners as usual.

To me this is the most important change to how we live as it means less money in my pocket due to yet another tax grab .
In fairness it's mostly middle-earners that vote for FF/FG anyway so you get what you vote for :)
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,845
French electricity would be largely nuclear. I wouldn't call that "renewable" as such, though it would be an alternative to fossil fuels.

Electric cars are good enough right now, but they are still to expensive even with a grant.
If VAT/VRT were dropped, would they be cheaper than a similar sized petrol car?

If oil and gas boilers are banned, and petrol and diesel vehicles are banned, where is all the electricity going to come from? Gas fired power stations?

If I drive with 4 passengers in a car, why can't I drive in the bus lane, while a taxi driver waiting for passengers is cruising along aimlessly in it?

If I install solar PV panels on my roof, why am I not allowed to sell this renewable electricity into the national grid? Its produced at the exact time of peak demand after all. Germans and Brits get paid handsomely for producing this premium product.

Lots of questions that need to be answered right now. But instead the politicians pronounce bans that will come into effect in a few years time, well after the next elections. In other words, further into the future than they would ever contemplate in any serious way.
Many ordinary cars drive in the bus lane, that's why the bus service is not great.

A serious effort at keeping cars out of the bus lane would be a novel idea.
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,845
Beyond the "international commitment" line [which are self imposed]. To what end are these policies actually for? How much will these policies actually impact the weather or alleviate Global warming and if so by when?
They won't make jot of difference, that seems to be the clearest thing about this whole debacle :rolleyes:
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,845
Ireland has a history of missed emissions targets so hard to see this plan achieving them especially when there are no indications of a cutback in the growth of agricultural exports. Too many TDs and too much local politics to make real progress.

Will be great if there is a rapid expansion in electric vehicle charging points in workplaces etc. and the necessary retrofits in dwellings energy efficiency to make heat pumps a viable option. Bottom line though is that we are spending four billion on harmful subsidies and an increase in the carbon tax to 30 euro will not make much of a dent in that: https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2019/0604/1053483-damaging-subsidies/

The Government needs to spell out how those most in need (the elderly poor especially) will benefit from the plan but it is lacking in real detail because of an unwillingness to identify those who will have to pay more..
If people all go out and buy electric cars they will spend much of their time walking due to lack of charging points and there will be blackouts due to lack of generating capacity.
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
837
If people all go out and buy electric cars they will spend much of their time walking due to lack of charging points and there will be blackouts due to lack of generating capacity.
The change will be in two phases with many persons getting hybrid first but concerns about resale value of diesel cars is a pressure. If work places install charging points then the change could be much faster. Petrol stations are also likely to install them to keep business - will we all be sitting in filling station cafes while the vehicle is charging! Shopping centres may also install some fast charging points.

The roll-out of smart meters should flatten demand but if our population increases by 20% towards six million that will be a new big pressure. The older ideas of regional population centres pulling persons from Dublin were sound.

Mechanical electricity meters will be replaced in every house by 2024 under the Smart Metering Programme. This will facilitate better demand management and cost savings for consumers, particularly when closely aligned with the ambitious roll-out of retrofitting programmes and micro-generation capacity for homes and small enterprises
 
Last edited:

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,845



FeelsLikeKevin



Jun 16

Replying to
@frankmcdonald60
Frank, give over. The UN doesn't even know how many "islands" places like the Solomon Islands should be comprised of, and no one can name any of the 10sq m sandbars that are alleged to have been lost to global warming Admit that neither can you. It's a cash grab for weather.
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
23,845
The change will be in two phases with many persons getting hybrid first but concerns about resale value of diesel cars is a pressure. If work places install charging points then the change could be much faster. Petrol stations are also likely to install them to keep business - will we all be sitting in filling station cafes while the vehicle is charging! Shopping centres may also install some fast charging points.

The roll-out of smart meters should flatten demand but if our population increases by 20% towards six million that will be a new big pressure. The older ideas of regional population centres pulling persons from Dublin were sound.

Mechanical electricity meters will be replaced in every house by 2024 under the Smart Metering Programme. This will facilitate better demand management and cost savings for consumers, particularly when closely aligned with the ambitious roll-out of retrofitting programmes and micro-generation capacity for homes and small enterprises
Lol, it's all 'if's' and 'buts' 😂
 

Baron von Biffo

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
12,036
Many ordinary cars drive in the bus lane, that's why the bus service is not great.

A serious effort at keeping cars out of the bus lane would be a novel idea.
We've spent a fortune providing public transport systems for Dublin but the natives continue to thwart our efforts by their selfish use of private cars.

A serious attempt to tackle that problem and to reduce emissions would see measures like:-
  • A congestion tax on any car moving in the city which doesn't leave it for at least 4 hours between 9 and 5.
  • A huge increase in car tax for private cars registered inside the M50
  • A ban on on-street parking.
  • No planning permission for parking spaces in housing developments.
  • Substantial increase in LPT for houses with a car parking space.
The list is not exhaustive and some tweaking might be necessary but it's a good starting point.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,643
We've spent a fortune providing public transport systems for Dublin but the natives continue to thwart our efforts by their selfish use of private cars.
Not really, most people choose public transport where its available rather than sitting in traffic jams. There is free parking provided in Leinster House and in Dublin Castle, I'm sure there are other places where the insiders look after themselves. I can see no justification for allowing all day parking in areas where nobody lives such as Merrion Square - I worked for a while in downtown Sydney and on days when people drove into work, they had to go and move their cars every 2 hrs. This brings me to my point about city driving - not everyone has a fixed, centre city, place of work. Call a tradesman and see how they need their vans. Bus Connects is supposed to reroute buses away from the city centre, if you live in Tallaght and work in Sandyford, you are looking at a bus into town and at least another out, yet its 3 miles by road, no reason why we can't have routes using the M50 with feeder services.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top