Government's Climate Action Plan

Turbinator

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The cost of building and maintaining the infrastructure is integral in the electricity bill, which datacentres pay the same as everybody else.
Here's an interesting stat; in 1930 we were at 98% renewable electricity generation. This because the Arnacrusha hydro plant was newly built, and people didn't use much at that time.
The state made a huge but very wise investment in that plant.
We obviously had politicians in those days who had vision and substance about them, not just style and short term spin.
You clearly have no idea of the extra infrastructure required to accomodate the vast extra energy demand from these centres
 


AyaanMyHero

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The cost of building and maintaining the infrastructure is integral in the electricity bill, which datacentres pay the same as everybody else.
Here's an interesting stat; in 1930 we were at 98% renewable electricity generation. This because the Arnacrusha hydro plant was newly built, and people didn't use much at that time.
The state made a huge but very wise investment in that plant.
We obviously had politicians in those days who had vision and substance about them, not just style and short term spin.
Politicians now turn their back on Nuclear power ‘cos it is the “wrong” answer.
 

recedite

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What makes you think anywhere is going to be swamped and when will this happen?
Some places already get swamped under certain conditions, which are a combination of spring tide, high rainfall and stormy onshore wind conditions.
We know sea levels are slowly rising and storms are getting stormier. So just put two and two together.
It won't happen suddenly, but at some stage the increased frequency of damage, the prohibitively high cost of flood barriers, and the unavailability of home insurance will render some coastal areas unfit for human habitation.
Parts of Dublin and Cork near the estuaries are already getting close to that point eg the parts of North Strand/Clontarf and Ringsend/Poolbeg closest to the sea.
 

recedite

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You clearly have no idea of the extra infrastructure required to accomodate the vast extra energy demand from these centres
Firstly, a kWhr of electricity used in a datacentre requires a similar infrastructure to any other usage of electricity.
So if you oppose new infrastructure, then you are effectively arguing against any growth in demand for electricity. That view is contrary to stated govt. policy which aims to phase out fossil fuels and replace them with (increasingly renewable) electric power sources.
There is no point in you trying to focus on datacentres as being the bad guys, just because they use electricity as opposed to fossil fuels. Its an outdated view.

Secondly, I mentioned Ardnacrusha as being visionary, for the times. You (and many of our current politicians) suffer from a lack of that visionary type of mentality.
Completed within 7 years of Irish independence in 1922 at a cost which was equivalent to one fifth of the Irish state's annual budget, the plant enabled an enormous surge in demand for electricity across the country and demonstrated the ability of the new government to develop during a difficult financial period
Shannon hydroelectric scheme - Wikipedia
 

RasherHash

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Some places already get swamped under certain conditions, which are a combination of spring tide, high rainfall and stormy onshore wind conditions.
We know sea levels are slowly rising and storms are getting stormier. So just put two and two together.
It won't happen suddenly, but at some stage the increased frequency of damage, the prohibitively high cost of flood barriers, and the unavailability of home insurance will render some coastal areas unfit for human habitation.
Parts of Dublin and Cork near the estuaries are already getting close to that point eg the parts of North Strand/Clontarf and Ringsend/Poolbeg closest to the sea.
There has always been flooding, you need to prove its something new and something extreme, I'm not seeing that?

Storm's are not getting stormier, that's simply not the case.

Coastal property is more expensive than inland, there's no sign of that changing. You can make things up if that floats your boat but these are facts you can't deny.
 

McTell

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//

Secondly, I mentioned Ardnacrusha as being visionary, for the times. You (and many of our current politicians) suffer from a lack of that visionary type of mentality.

Shannon hydroelectric scheme - Wikipedia

Kind of visionary. The first scheme was proposed in the 1840s, and an act was passed in about 1900 for a hydro scheme. It wasn't like a brand new idea.

What was visionary in the 1920s was the relatively poor new state betting the house on the scheme, and it worked.
 

recedite

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There has always been flooding, you need to prove its something new and something extreme, I'm not seeing that?

Storm's are not getting stormier, that's simply not the case.

Coastal property is more expensive than inland, there's no sign of that changing. You can make things up if that floats your boat but these are facts you can't deny.
I'm not somebody who claims Climageddon is going to happen in 12 years, or even at all. Nor am I talking about anything extreme.
However the sea levels are rising slowly but surely.
And the storms are getting stormier because "there is more energy in the system". Storms form out in the Atlantic, and the amount of energy in them is proportional to the surface water temperature. We won't actually see much in the way of global warming here in Ireland. Indeed it could actually get colder if the Gulf Stream weakens. We are after all, on a similar latitude to Canada.
But we will see an inexorable slow increase in both sea levels and stormy weather.
 

greencharade

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Firstly, a kWhr of electricity used in a datacentre requires a similar infrastructure to any other usage of electricity.
So if you oppose new infrastructure, then you are effectively arguing against any growth in demand for electricity. That view is contrary to stated govt. policy which aims to phase out fossil fuels and replace them with (increasingly renewable) electric power sources.
There is no point in you trying to focus on datacentres as being the bad guys, just because they use electricity as opposed to fossil fuels. Its an outdated view.
The point is that they use electricity disproportionately, and therefore the costs that arise are disproportionate to any return or benefit they provide. You need to look at the electricity demand forecasts and how they relate significantly to planned data centres.
 

recedite

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The point is that they use electricity disproportionately...
Disproportionately compared to what? Compared to a building that does not use much electricity?
Does an electric car use electricity disproportionately?
Does a house heated with a heat pump use electricity disproportionately?

Yes. This kind of statement is called a truism. Something that is true, but pointless.
 

greencharade

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Disproportionately compared to what? Compared to a building that does not use much electricity?
Does an electric car use electricity disproportionately?
Does a house heated with a heat pump use electricity disproportionately?

Yes. This kind of statement is called a truism. Something that is true, but pointless.
I guess if somebody doesn't want to understand something, then they won't. The rest of the sentence, which you haven't quoted, gave you the explanation.
 

recedite

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So if the forecasted demand is wrong, nothing is allowed to change in real life?
What's the geographical forecast for electric cars, or heat pumps?
IMO forecasts are only a (poor) guide. Supply must be adapted to fit actual demand in real life.
And with some imagination, demand can sometimes be influenced to more closely to match supply, eg with variable rate tariffs. Cheap electricity when the wind blows.
 

Volatire

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The point is that they use electricity disproportionately, and therefore the costs that arise are disproportionate to any return or benefit they provide. You need to look at the electricity demand forecasts and how they relate significantly to planned data centres.
You don't use the internet then?
 

RasherHash

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Patrick Moore
So, 85% of the energy used for a civilized life, refrigeration, transportation, heating & cooling, lights, Internet & media access, mechanized agriculture, mining, forestry, etc. is a "Weapon of Mass Destruction". They are completely delusional. Human haters, except themselves.
 

omgsquared

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Just going out to cut up a few logs with my two stoke chain saw . I will store them so the logs are air dried . Afterwards as it gets dark I will stick a few dry ones, that I cut last years in my wood stove , maybe a few briquettes as well, put the kettle on top to heat up the water , maybe make myself a hot toddy stick and watch TV for an hour or so.. So Greta can go and jump in the lake that is right outside my house... Life is good
 

recedite

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Just going out to cut up a few logs with my two stoke chain saw . I will store them so the logs are air dried . Afterwards as it gets dark I will stick a few dry ones, that I cut last years in my wood stove , maybe a few briquettes as well, put the kettle on top to heat up the water , maybe make myself a hot toddy stick and watch TV for an hour or so.. So Greta can go and jump in the lake that is right outside my house... Life is good
Greta would probably approve. That's renewable energy you are using there, not like most people using gas and oil fossil fuels.
 

RasherHash

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Greta would probably approve. That's renewable energy you are using there, not like most people using gas and oil fossil fuels.
The problem is, if everyone was to do that the world's forests would be cut down in no time and people would die in their millions for lack of heat, transport, energy and much more besides.

Our societies cannot function without fossil fuels, that is the reality.
 


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