Governments vanity to cost tax payer billions

Disillusioned democrat

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Can someone provide some details that might disprove my assumption that it's simply the government's vanity is delaying us accessing an EU bailout fund, which may well cost us billions in additional interest payments.

It seems that the only real loosers will be the government, whose policies and decisions will be put under the spot light and maybe exposed as vested and/or short signted. Either way the government will have to reduce spending - but the Brian's "we'll sort this out ourselves" bullsh1t is going to crucify us.

Listening to Minister for Cheese today, Brendan Smith, telling us that "we" have to face "our" debts and deal with them made me want to reach into the radio and strangle him - since when did "we" decide to make AIB and Anglo "our" problem.

As long as Cowen and FF at the helm, EU will laugh at Ireland's attempts to solve the problems.
 


johnfás

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Playing the game now is one of the very few good decisions that the Government have paid. The strong €uro countries are absolutely petrified of contagion, the longer we string them out (within limits) the more bargaining power we have when we do a deal. We have very few cards, but we might as well play what we have.
 

SlickWilly

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Hardly a surprise when their ex don, the queen of Drumcondra paid so much of our money to tart himself up with make up!
 

Astral Peaks

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As there is now some discussion that we might access EFSF to address the day to day funding needs of the banks, your OP is even more relevant.

FF seem to be trying might and main to prevent external scrutiny of the books, when the EU looked at the Greek's books, the real deficit jumped.

Loading the clearing banks onto the "bailout" while not accessing structural help allows FF to claim it is protecting the national interest.

FF interest and National interest are NOT the same thing, expect heavy spinning today!!!
 

Disillusioned democrat

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As there is now some discussion that we might access EFSF to address the day to day funding needs of the banks, your OP is even more relevant.

FF seem to be trying might and main to prevent external scrutiny of the books, when the EU looked at the Greek's books, the real deficit jumped.

Loading the clearing banks onto the "bailout" while not accessing structural help allows FF to claim it is protecting the national interest.

FF interest and National interest are NOT the same thing, expect heavy spinning today!!!
Does anyone know of a way to directly reach out to the EU to try to explain the potential divergence between Government interest and what's best for the people of Ireland.

I can imagine that the DoF and Government officials the EU meet have spun a line of lies and spin, and it's important that the EU are "informed" of the real feeling amongst the population, if only so they can't deniy ever being informed that FF policy wasn't universally acccepted?
 

Astral Peaks

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Does anyone know of a way to directly reach out to the EU to try to explain the potential divergence between Government interest and what's best for the people of Ireland.

I can imagine that the DoF and Government officials the EU meet have spun a line of lies and spin, and it's important that the EU are "informed" of the real feeling amongst the population, if only so they can't deniy ever being informed that FF policy wasn't universally acccepted?
Not sure the EU/ECB care about the people of Ireland!

And for most people here this crisis is now largely too complex and too technical to understand.

Spin will rule, soundbite is king, even when it is misleading or distorting the actual.
 

johnnypockets

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Can someone provide some details that might disprove my assumption that it's simply the government's vanity is delaying us accessing an EU bailout fund, which may well cost us billions in additional interest payments.

It seems that the only real loosers will be the government, whose policies and decisions will be put under the spot light and maybe exposed as vested and/or short signted. Either way the government will have to reduce spending - but the Brian's "we'll sort this out ourselves" bullsh1t is going to crucify us.

Listening to Minister for Cheese today, Brendan Smith, telling us that "we" have to face "our" debts and deal with them made me want to reach into the radio and strangle him - since when did "we" decide to make AIB and Anglo "our" problem.

As long as Cowen and FF at the helm, EU will laugh at Ireland's attempts to solve the problems.
No, the government have nothing to lose. The REAL losers will be the taxpayers.
 

leroy42

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Will the taxpayers lose? anymore then we are already going to? The Central Bank govenor says that the governments plans are in line (money wise I assume) with what the EU/IMF would do, so no difference there.

It certainly seems, at least in my opinion, that the government are hell bent on keeping the EU/IMF away and their arguement is based on loss of sovirenty, which many of the people I talk too believe we gave up as soon as the Bank bailout was announced. It is only because of ECB that the banks are still able to borrow, so it makes sense that the EU would push to have the situation formalised.

I think the biggest losers would be the government. It would show their policies haven't worked (and possibly hastened the bail-out), the hold on power would be gone (no point being in 'power' if someone else makes all the decisions) and would forever paint them as the party that lost out republic back into foreign control, not something they can easily emerge from. I agree that it would not be a good day for the country as a whole, but the UK survived their bail-out (1970's I think)

I don't think the government are keeping the EU/IMF out simply because they beleive it is the right thing for Ireland, I think they are doing it because they believe it is in their interests.

From my understanding, by accepting the bail-out (like Greece) we would secure funding at an agreed rate (5%) which is less then the last bond issue we had and much less than the current rates (although what they will be in July is open to estimatation). Why not accept the bail-out with strict time limits, stablise the situation, re-invigorate the economy and look to get back on our feet. Most people turn to friends/family even banks when money is tight, why not Ireland?
 

Watcher2

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Playing the game now is one of the very few good decisions that the Government have paid. The strong €uro countries are absolutely petrified of contagion, the longer we string them out (within limits) the more bargaining power we have when we do a deal. We have very few cards, but we might as well play what we have.
Would you not agree that it is the playing of a "game" that got us into this mess?

Jesus, the mentaility of some is shocking.
 

Legacy

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Sep 15, 2010
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I too have been pondering this question and it strikes me that there must be a hell of a lot to hide. I think behind it all is the crushing need not to admit that the decisions they took with regard to the Banks were wrong and catastrophic for the country. Fianna Fail, as an institution, have been in control of the State for many many years and their need to retain this control has driven them to the brink of total madness.

Of course they dont want Europe prying too deep into our finances - they know where all the bodies are buried and they dont want them exhumed.
 

johnnypockets

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Will the taxpayers lose? anymore then we are already going to? The Central Bank govenor says that the governments plans are in line (money wise I assume) with what the EU/IMF would do, so no difference there.

It certainly seems, at least in my opinion, that the government are hell bent on keeping the EU/IMF away and their arguement is based on loss of sovirenty, which many of the people I talk too believe we gave up as soon as the Bank bailout was announced. It is only because of ECB that the banks are still able to borrow, so it makes sense that the EU would push to have the situation formalised.

I think the biggest losers would be the government. It would show their policies haven't worked (and possibly hastened the bail-out), the hold on power would be gone (no point being in 'power' if someone else makes all the decisions) and would forever paint them as the party that lost out republic back into foreign control, not something they can easily emerge from. I agree that it would not be a good day for the country as a whole, but the UK survived their bail-out (1970's I think)

I don't think the government are keeping the EU/IMF out simply because they beleive it is the right thing for Ireland, I think they are doing it because they believe it is in their interests.

From my understanding, by accepting the bail-out (like Greece) we would secure funding at an agreed rate (5%) which is less then the last bond issue we had and much less than the current rates (although what they will be in July is open to estimatation). Why not accept the bail-out with strict time limits, stablise the situation, re-invigorate the economy and look to get back on our feet. Most people turn to friends/family even banks when money is tight, why not Ireland?
Is it 5 or 6%. I know that Greece got it at 5 % but I thought any further countries would get the higher rate?
 

wolf

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Jun 26, 2008
Messages
48
Can someone provide some details that might disprove my assumption that it's simply the government's vanity is delaying us accessing an EU bailout fund, which may well cost us billions in additional interest payments.

It seems that the only real loosers will be the government, whose policies and decisions will be put under the spot light and maybe exposed as vested and/or short signted. Either way the government will have to reduce spending - but the Brian's "we'll sort this out ourselves" bullsh1t is going to crucify us.

Listening to Minister for Cheese today, Brendan Smith, telling us that "we" have to face "our" debts and deal with them made me want to reach into the radio and strangle him - since when did "we" decide to make AIB and Anglo "our" problem.

As long as Cowen and FF at the helm, EU will laugh at Ireland's attempts to solve the problems.



Me thinks they rushed in to not only to save the Banks, but to cover their own [TDs] tracks. Remember Mr Cowan,when he became a minster for the first time,there was questions about shares he had[but did not disclose] in a Mining project of some sort , and it conflicted with his then Office.
Some years later he was involved in Investments in Apartments in Leeds.
I don't trust ANY member of the Dail or Sanead, its a little Cartel among the lot of them played out on our National Station RTE. It just depends on who's in power, and stick around to get their TURN and Pension.
Theres never a better time to start, With a clean sheet.
 

wolf

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
48
Can someone provide some details that might disprove my assumption that it's simply the government's vanity is delaying us accessing an EU bailout fund, which may well cost us billions in additional interest payments.

It seems that the only real loosers will be the government, whose policies and decisions will be put under the spot light and maybe exposed as vested and/or short signted. Either way the government will have to reduce spending - but the Brian's "we'll sort this out ourselves" bullsh1t is going to crucify us.

Listening to Minister for Cheese today, Brendan Smith, telling us that "we" have to face "our" debts and deal with them made me want to reach into the radio and strangle him - since when did "we" decide to make AIB and Anglo "our" problem.

As long as Cowen and FF at the helm, EU will laugh at Ireland's attempts to solve the problems.



Me thinks they rushed in to not only to save the Banks, but to cover their own [TDs] tracks. Remember Mr Cowan,when he became a minster for the first time,there was questions about shares he had[but did not disclose] in a Mining project of some sort , and it conflicted with his then Office.
Some years later he was involved in Investments in Apartments in Leeds.
I don't trust ANY member of the Dail or Sanead, its a little Cartel among the lot of them played out on our National Station RTE. It just depends on who's in power, and stick around to get their TURN and Pension.
Theres never a better time to start, With a clean sheet.
 

olamp

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,445
Not sure the EU/ECB care about the people of Ireland!

And for most people here this crisis is now largely too complex and too technical to understand.

Spin will rule, soundbite is king, even when it is misleading or distorting the actual.
Most people in this country haven`t got a clue what is going on..Try to engage them in conversation and you will be told "I prefer not to know"-"I don`t read about it " or"sure we can`t do anything about it so why worry "!! As long as they have their tv,pint and the Sun newspaper for the football results they are quite happy --They are about to get a big wake-up call!!
 


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