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Greece Debt Relief Only After German Federal Election In 2017 To Block Far-Right

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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The Eurozone hails breakthrough with Greece and a new IMF debt deal. It turns out Schauble who tried to portrait a strict resistance to any kind of debt relief without conditions now has accepted debt relief for Greece but only to be revealed in detail after the German federal election in 2017. This will allow the incumbent political powers in Germany to strike down any competing political parties that try to gain support on the back of an unconditional debt write off for Greece as requested by the French and Lagarde at the IMF. The German electorate will certainly be in for a big budget surprise in 2018 if the deal goes ahead. Another master stroke by Schauble?

Eurozone hails 'breakthrough' with Greece, IMF debt deal | News | ekathimerini.com
 


sic transit

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He was never absolutely against it, just against the type of chicanery the Greeks have indulged in for far too long. Greek debt forgiveness has to come and will come but only against the background of them taking their medicine and behaving.
 

GDPR

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He was never absolutely against it, just against the type of chicanery the Greeks have indulged in for far too long. Greek debt forgiveness has to come and will come but only against the background of them taking their medicine and behaving.
When German politicians recognise the part German polices and control of the ECB played in the Euro crisis then, maybe, their protestations at the faults & desire for punishment of others won't ring quite so hollow.
 

sic transit

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When German politicians recognise the part German polices and control of the ECB played in the Euro crisis then, maybe, their protestations at the faults & desire for punishment of others won't ring quite so hollow.
That's a concession and a conversation for the end of the next decade, when everyone connected to lax supervision and control is either dead or retired.
 

Jack O Neill

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When German politicians recognise the part German polices and control of the ECB played in the Euro crisis then, maybe, their protestations at the faults & desire for punishment of others won't ring quite so hollow.
Excellent ammunition for the Brexit campaign one would think
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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When German politicians recognise the part German polices and control of the ECB played in the Euro crisis then, maybe, their protestations at the faults & desire for punishment of others won't ring quite so hollow.
which German polices and ECB structure played the most part in the EU crises you'd say?

Should the Germans have blocked the Euro from the get go by rejecting Mitterand's demands to destroy the Deutsch Mark in return for German re-unification? Or do you simply mean the lending of money to insolvent and corrupt governments in Europe?
 

Spanner Island

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Across Europe traditional 'establishment' politicians in their arrogance obviously still think voters are thick... despite those politicians getting relentless electoral drubbings by voters across the continent who are sick to the back teeth of them.

Delaying this while it's in the public domain isn't going to fool anyone. In fact it's insulting to anyone who can think.

And this is the second time in a row the EU has been 'operating' based on feckin' German electoral cycles.

If anyone is in any doubt about who runs Europe they need to cop on fast.
 

sic transit

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Excellent ammunition for the Brexit campaign one would think
Too complicated to explain and their intervention was for Eurozone countries only, doing pretty much what the BOE does.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Across Europe traditional 'establishment' politicians in their arrogance obviously still think voters are thick... despite those politicians getting relentless electoral drubbings by voters across the continent who are sick to the back teeth of them.

Delaying this while it's in the public domain isn't going to fool anyone. In fact it's insulting to anyone who can think.

And this is the second time in a row the EU has been 'operating' based on feckin' German electoral cycles.

If anyone is in any doubt about who runs Europe they need to cop on fast.
indeed and as usual the fish rots from the head down.
 

GDPR

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which German polices and ECB structure played the most part in the EU crises you'd say?

Should the Germans have blocked the Euro from the get go by rejecting Mitterand's demands to destroy the Deutsch Mark in return for German re-unification? Or do you simply mean the lending of money to insolvent and corrupt governments in Europe?
I mean deliberately turning a blind eye to countries joining the Euro who they knew were not ready, their own CB told them so, I mean controlling the ECB interest rate at a level that suited only the German economy but was entirely unsuitable for some other countries, I mean getting a 20% export advantage from a lower Euro at the cost of those other countries, but paying F. all back when the Euro crisis push came to shove, I mean holding the ECB back from taking the action it needed to take early in the crisis, but wasn't the "German way".
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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I mean deliberately turning a blind eye to countries joining the Euro who they knew were not ready, their own CB told them so, I mean controlling the ECB interest rate at a level that suited only the German economy but was entirely unsuitable for some other countries, I mean getting a 20% export advantage from a lower Euro at the cost of those other countries, but paying F. all back when the Euro crisis push came to shove, I mean holding the ECB back from taking the action it needed to take early in the crisis, but wasn't the "German way".
I'd like to believe this simplistic story-line but the fact that the french yanked up ECB interest rates at a time when the global economy went into over-drive is a classical pro-cyclical financial instrument feature here.



and sorry the current 0 interest rate policy is flat lining effort in the German economy to adjust efficiently by way of central bank powers. But Germany would have needed this kind of ECB interest rate during the years 2001 to 2006 and didn't get it.
 

GDPR

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and sorry the current 0 interest rate policy is flat lining effort in the German economy to adjust efficiently by way of central bank powers. But Germany would have needed this kind of ECB interest rate during the years 2001 to 2006 and didn't get it.
They got closer to it than was good for any other country, but please, continue to miss the point as you see fit.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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They got closer to it than was good for any other country, but please, continue to miss the point as you see fit.
sorry to rain on your parade, but there isn't much substance in your rant. it needs to stand to up to at least some very basic economic questions here and it obviously doesn't.
 

sondagefaux

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This is what Greece got as part of its 2012 bailout programme negotiated by the previous government - a 53.5% cut in the nominal value of Greek debts held by the private sector, worth about €107 billion.


PSI terms
― 53.5% reduction in the nominal face value of eligible Greek sovereign bonds held by private
investors, with an aim to provide an up-front debt relief of ca €107bn (Eurobank EFG estimate
assuming full participation). Note that this is slightly higher than the 50% face-value reduction
envisioned in the October 26-27th EU Summit Statement. The overall notional amount of Greek
sovereign bonds eligible for exchange is estimated at ca €206bn.
― The coupon rate on the new bonds will vary with maturity: 2% for the period between February
2012 to February 2015; 3% in 2016-2020 and 4.3% thereafter. The weighed average coupon of
new bonds over a 30-year period is 3.65%, for maturities up to 2020 the average coupon is 2.63%.
― New bonds to be issued by the Hellenic Republic will have a face amount equal to 31.5% of the
face amount of old bonds tendered for exchange. In addition, an investor gets 15% of the face amount of debt exchanged in the form of 24-month EFSF bills.
― Each participation holders will also receive detachable GDP-linked securities issued by the Hellenic Republic with a notional amount equal to the face amount of the new bonds offered to him.
― New bonds will be governed by English law.
Official sector involvement (OSI)
― The ECB will pass on any profits from the Greek bonds it bought

https://www.eurobank.gr/Uploads/pdf/FOCUS- February 21 2012.pdf

I think it's safe to say that Greece has already had substantial debt relief.

The latest proposals are conditional on Greece meeting its commitments under the current bailout programme.

If it does, Greece will get longer to pay back its debts to the other eurozone countries and reduced interest rates on those debts.

Had Greece successfully completed the 2012 bailout programme, it would have been able to achieve the same result (longer times to pay back debts, lower interest rates) by borrowing from commercial lenders and using the money to pay back official lenders, like Ireland has done.

The biggest advantage of doing it the Irish way is that commercial lenders don't impose the politically difficult and tough terms and conditions that official lenders, the IMF and the other eurozone states, have imposed.

So the Irish way, completing the bailout programme successfully, replacing more expensive loans from the Troika with cheaper loans from commercial lenders, getting out from Troika supervision with all the stringent terms and conditions that go along with that, has proven to be far better than the Greek way.

There are still too many eejits here that have failed to learn that lesson. If they haven't learned it by now, they never will.
 

GDPR

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sorry to rain on your parade, but there isn't much substance in your rant. it needs to stand to up to at least some very basic economic questions here and it obviously doesn't.
Everything I posted in my first reply to you is factual, your "obviously" is your opinion. Let us celebrate the difference.
 

Clanrickard

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Actually this is a disaster for Germany and Germany's reputation.

Under Schroeder Germany had few critics, let alone enemnies outside of the neocons in Washington.

Under Merkel, soon Germany will few freinds, except perhaps some neocons in Washington.

Schauble is an idiot for doing this. This type of move tends to backfire spectacularly.
 

Analyzer

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This is what Greece got as part of its 2012 bailout programme negotiated by the previous government - a 53.5% cut in the nominal value of Greek debts held by the private sector, worth about €107 billion.





https://www.eurobank.gr/Uploads/pdf/FOCUS- February 21 2012.pdf

I think it's safe to say that Greece has already had substantial debt relief.

The latest proposals are conditional on Greece meeting its commitments under the current bailout programme.

If it does, Greece will get longer to pay back its debts to the other eurozone countries and reduced interest rates on those debts.

Had Greece successfully completed the 2012 bailout programme, it would have been able to achieve the same result (longer times to pay back debts, lower interest rates) by borrowing from commercial lenders and using the money to pay back official lenders, like Ireland has done.

The biggest advantage of doing it the Irish way is that commercial lenders don't impose the politically difficult and tough terms and conditions that official lenders, the IMF and the other eurozone states, have imposed.

So the Irish way, completing the bailout programme successfully, replacing more expensive loans from the Troika with cheaper loans from commercial lenders, getting out from Troika supervision with all the stringent terms and conditions that go along with that, has proven to be far better than the Greek way.

There are still too many eejits here that have failed to learn that lesson. If they haven't learned it by now, they never will.
Seeing as Ireland's public debt is far larger now than when we entered the "bailout" we may as well include EK and Baldy Noonan in the category of subprome intellectuals mentioned in your last sentence there
 

Tacitus

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I mean deliberately turning a blind eye to countries joining the Euro who they knew were not ready, their own CB told them so, I mean controlling the ECB interest rate at a level that suited only the German economy but was entirely unsuitable for some other countries, I mean getting a 20% export advantage from a lower Euro at the cost of those other countries, but paying F. all back when the Euro crisis push came to shove, I mean holding the ECB back from taking the action it needed to take early in the crisis, but wasn't the "German way".
Germanys influence has never been as large as its' size suggests starting with the fact that no ECB director has been from Germany so far. When Schröder needed a change in interest rates to ease his reform program to his electorate he was overruled by France and Southern Europe. Currently the Bundesbank is against Draghis' policy, but continies to be ignored.

Itis also not Germany who was mainly responsible for the introduction of countries to the Euro who were not ready for it, but France insisted that e.g. Italy were to be permitted in order to create a counterweight against Germamy. Germany was vehemently opposed to letting Greece in, but they appealed to their conscience (war, reparations) which made Germany drop its' resistance.
 


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