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Greece forced to give away assets worth €39bn for free to financiers


feargach

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Back in August, Greece had planned to take away public assets from the Greek populace and hand them over to financiers. The financiers reckoned at that time that those assets were worth €50bn to them. This worth was based on the discounted value of the exorbitant fees the financiers will be charging Greeks for the use of the formerly public services which they paid for and built with their taxes before handing it over to vultures.

They're still committed to getting rid of those assets, as they have been ordered to by Merkel, but now the financiers are only going to pay €11bn for them.

Eurozone crisis live: Greek government divided over austerity deal - as it happened | Business | guardian.co.uk

The chairman of Greece's privatisation agency ... Takis Athanasopoulos told the Greek parliament that the new target is €11bn of asset sales by 2016, not €19bn by 2015 as previously expected.
Even the €19bn figure was sharply lower than the €50bn target set last August, before the deep recession and spiraling fears of a Grexit scared potential buyers away.
They're not going to charge any less in fees to the future users of these services, so basically they've just got a €39bn early Christmas gift. Their future revenues are locked in as soon as they purchase these assets (unless Greece is wiped out by a tsunami).

Why is the Troika forcing future Greeks to get ripped off for their own services? Even if we accept that the assets need to become a profit-making exercise, surely the money should go directly to the ECB and not into the pockets of vampire corporate middlemen. It wouldn't be difficult to simply hand over ownership of those assets to the ECB, which is the body actually ponying up money to Greece.

But no. Greece has to give the assets to third parties who are doing nothing for Greece. For peanuts.

The brutal austerity being forced upon Greece is supposedly needed to protect the German taxpayer. So why the hell does the German taxpayer want Greece's infrastructure to belong to Japanese, Arab and Brazilian financiers?

The financiers aren't lending Greece a bean. But they're getting all of Greece's goodies, while the entities that actually are lending Greece some money are happy to let that happen.

Defend that!
 

cimon9999

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Major fail in reading comprehension. This:

"We expect that it will take more time to achieve the 50 billion euro target," Kathimerini said, citing a draft agreement between Athens and its lenders.
 

feargach

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Major fail in reading comprehension. This:
I quoted and linked to a Guardian story from today. You quoted and linked to a Reuters story from a week ago.

I guess it is a major fail - on your part. Didn't the "Oct 23" bit give you a hint that this might not be the freshest news?
 

feedmelies

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The chairman of Greece's privatisation agency has confirmed this afternoon that Athens hopes to raise rather less revenue through asset sales than planned.

Takis Athanasopoulos told the Greek parliament that the new target is €11bn of asset sales by 2016, not €19bn by 2015 as previously expected.

Even the €19bn figure was sharply lower than the €50bn target set last August, before the deep recession and spiraling fears of a Grexit scared potential buyers away.
16:35 GMT
Here is the full text. I'm not sure why you removed some text from the first paragraph, but regardless: Do you have proof that it is the same amount of assets being sold for 11 billion euros instead of 50? As opposed to the amount of assets sold being less than what was originally planned? From the article, it is impossible to determine.
 

Howya

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Had a look at the link but got distracted with Argentinian default...don't disagree with the overall sentiment that Greece should not be forced to sell state assets (we are in the same position). I'm hoping that somehow this is a go slow tactic on the part of Greece to kick the can down the road and only "sell" a few assets and eventually everyone will forget about the plan...here's hoping.
 

Analyzer

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The problem with Greece is that they do not have plutocrat smug phat bankers or official ambassadors of the IFSC heaping praise on them for handing over all of the money to the finance houses.

Greece needs a property paper with a news supplement to bring them all around to being happy little obedient mice like we have in this country.
 

feargach

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Had a look at the link but got distracted with Argentinian default...don't disagree with the overall sentiment that Greece should not be forced to sell state assets (we are in the same position). I'm hoping that somehow this is a go slow tactic on the part of Greece to kick the can down the road and only "sell" a few assets and eventually everyone will forget about the plan...here's hoping.
No, it's simply normal sales dynamics.

Greece and Ireland are both ordered to sell by a given date. The prospective buyers know this. They know that we MUST dispose of our assets to the highest bidder by a given date, even if the highest bid is only a penny.

This being so, the prospective buyers are reducing their offer. They'll only start raising it if a competing buyer offers a higher bid.

Let's look beyond this.

Greece and Ireland are being rescued by the ECB and IMF and Germany.

It's possible to make an argument that, as a quid pro quo, Greece should have to repay its rescuers by giving them its assets.

But why should it be forced to give away its assets to someone who DIDN'T rescue them?
 

feargach

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It would be pointless setting out to defend something that isn't happening.
Again, it's been reported in a paper with an excellent reputation for getting its facts right and retracting and correcting when it gets them wrong.

You want to call the source into question? Let's see your evidence. If you got none, then I'm the guy with a reputable source.
 

odlum

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They should have to surrender more than that. Country is bankrupt, owes money. This is what happens when you don't pay your debts. This is why it's important for Ireland to pay all debts. In fact I think damages should be paid to bondholders but maybe it's too early for that yet.
 

revolution

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They should have to surrender more than that. Country is bankrupt, owes money. This is what happens when you don't pay your debts. This is why it's important for Ireland to pay all debts. In fact I think damages should be paid to bondholders but maybe it's too early for that yet.

Are you on the sauce?
 

odlum

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Are you on the sauce?
They were conned by the regulator and Irish banking institutions under the regulator's control in to investing in what they thought were solid banks. While Anglo shares were being manipulated it was under the regulator's watch.

I can see damages being paid in the future and they would have a solid case. We should do it voluntarily instead of being forced.
 

corporal punishment

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They should have to surrender more than that. Country is bankrupt, owes money. This is what happens when you don't pay your debts. This is why it's important for Ireland to pay all debts. In fact I think damages should be paid to bondholders but maybe it's too early for that yet.
You should get that brain injury checked out. Might be more serious than it appears.
 

corporal punishment

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They were conned by the regulator and Irish banking institutions under the regulator's control in to investing in what they thought were solid banks. While Anglo shares were being manipulated it was under the regulator's watch.

I can see damages being paid in the future and they would have a solid case. We should do it voluntarily instead of being forced.
We???
 

iartaoiseach

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They were conned by the regulator and Irish banking institutions under the regulator's control in to investing in what they thought were solid banks. While Anglo shares were being manipulated it was under the regulator's watch.

I can see damages being paid in the future and they would have a solid case. We should do it voluntarily instead of being forced.
who was meant to be keeping any eye on the regulator then? hint....the answer in in your avatar.
 

Seanie Lemass

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This is the Ghost of Christmas to Come for us.

Despite some naifs beleiving that the "IMF has some useful programmes" :rolleyes:, a large part of the agenda is to dismantle Irish public companies and that will happen fairly shortly when decision is made on Coillte etc.
 

Clanrickard

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The financiers aren't lending Greece a bean. But they're getting all of Greece's goodies, while the entities that actually are lending Greece some money are happy to let that happen.

Defend that!
It is tiresome to read this bilge. Greece is broke and to raise money for their debts they are being forced to sell state assets.
 

feargach

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It is tiresome to read this bilge. Greece is broke and to raise money for their debts they are being forced to sell state assets.
Except they are being forced to give away those revenue-generating assets to people who DIDN'T lend them any money.

Think of it this way: some guy owes you money. The guy owns a pub which generates a steady income stream of €10,000 a year.

He's put it on the internet and the best offer he can get for it is someone who's willing to rent the pub from him for €2000 a year. That bidder will thus be making a 400% profit every year if he gets to rent it at that price.

So, those being the facts, should your debtor:

a) accept the bid, and hand over the €2000 a year to you, or;
b) reject the low bid, and hand over the €10,000 a year to you.

Now, which seems most sensible to you?

If Greece has debts, I can understand the notion of being forced to sell off its goodies to its creditors.

But the notion that it should dump its goodies at a fraction of their worth to non-creditors is obviously indefensible and patently immoral.
 

Seanie Lemass

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That's the IMF template. "Nice cop" lends you money. Bad cop tells you to decmimate public services and where possible sell them off. Usually to rather well connected chaps who of course are like the whores and thieves who followed medieval armies.
 

stopdoingstuff

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When a sovereign sells debt, is there any contract that makes specific assets the collateral for that debt? If there is, then fine, but as far as I know debt is raised on the basis that there are future tax revenues to pay off that debt. If those revenues don't materialize, then that's that risk that the bondholders take and they get paid interest as compensation for assuming those risks. And more specifically, what contract entitles foreign investors who did not bail out Greece to take over state assets at knockdown rates? The fact that the sale of assets was included as a condition for receiving a bailout at all shows that the troika has deliberately chosen to privelege the interests of investors over the interests of citizens- this would be fine if the troika was a private financial corporation representing the lenders, but it is made up public bodies funded by tax payers. The simple fact is that there is a way to reduce Greek debt- let the foolish investors take the losses that they were paid interest to take in the first place. That this is not happening shows that the Troika repesents no one except bondholders and that their main task is to socialize private losses. It is no wonder that the Greeks are in the streets against this feudal financial dictatorship, a group of bagmen and locusts, whose actions will result in nothing but misery and death.
 
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