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Greedy moron sues Davy Stockbrokers


Aristodemus

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Oct 8, 2009
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3,738
Just reading this story sums up the greed that swept this country for a few years. This lad inherits property worth €10m and squanders his inheritance by speculating on the Stock Market. Seems his defence is that he is a moron and the banks should have known that and not lent him any money. All the other issues raised by his legal team are just a muddying of the waters. He's getting no sympathy off me.

Man says he is not liable for €3.4m loans - The Irish Times - Tue, Dec 18, 2012
 


Ryan Tubbs

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Sep 20, 2012
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Jim Mansfield's son deployed a similar defence. He said he had a reading age of 12, despite being a director of 6 companies.

Seán Quinn's wife also deployed a similar defence. She was a director of 15 companies, and a company secretary of 10, and yet expected the High Court to believe that she stayed at home all day washing dishes and ironing clothes, and knew nothing about Company law. This was the most stunning display of lies and perjury which the Commercial Court has seen to date anyway.

In all these cases, I feel sorry for the lawyers who are forced to go in to court and sully their own reputations by making arguments which are completely laughable.
 

Aristodemus

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Jim Mansfield's son deployed a similar defence. He said he had a reading age of 12, despite being a director of 6 companies.

Seán Quinn's wife also deployed a similar defence. She was a director of 15 companies, and a company secretary of 10, and yet expected the High Court to believe that she stayed at home all day washing dishes and ironing clothes, and knew nothing about Company law. This was the most stunning display of lies and perjury which the Commercial Court has seen to date anyway.

In all these cases, I feel sorry for the lawyers who are forced to go in to court and sully their own reputations by making arguments which are completely laughable.
I'm not so sure. If I was to speculate then I would say that the plaintiff approached a solicitor who then introduced him to a Barrister. Five minutes talking to this guy probably convinced him that the client was a moron
 

Watcher2

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May 2, 2010
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34,246
While I dont have any sympathy for the guy, I find it very hard to side with any stockbroker. They have their bread buttered on both sides. Thank God for the internet and online trading, most I know are run by brokers, but its a better kind of brokerage.
 

beazlebottom

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2,835
While I dont have any sympathy for the guy, I find it very hard to side with any stockbroker. They have their bread buttered on both sides. Thank God for the internet and online trading, most I know are run by brokers, but its a better kind of brokerage.
I assume he is suing the Wealth Destru (oops, sorry Management) Division of said brokerage??
 
B

birthday

Jim Mansfield's son deployed a similar defence. He said he had a reading age of 12, despite being a director of 6 companies.

Seán Quinn's wife also deployed a similar defence. She was a director of 15 companies, and a company secretary of 10, and yet expected the High Court to believe that she stayed at home all day washing dishes and ironing clothes, and knew nothing about Company law. This was the most stunning display of lies and perjury which the Commercial Court has seen to date anyway.

In all these cases, I feel sorry for the lawyers who are forced to go in to court and sully their own reputations by making arguments which are completely laughable.
You feel sorry for lawyers?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bank-to-pressure-wealthy-to-repay-millions-215201.html&ei=r4jQUMqwDJKzhAeL4ICoBg&usg=AFQjCNEGAD7lFg3V6wCF4zjTO8aWgTlvWQ

According to the article in the Examiner the lawyers themselves are playing the moron defence and borrowed (along with other wealthy professionals) hundreds of millions from Anglo to invest in geared property funds that have gone sour.
They owe money for the loans but are now going to sue the taxpayer (sorry IBRC) for their mistake.
How can they do this when IBRC did not exist at the time that they took out their loans?

Apparently many barristers are sweating as their ability to continue 'practicising' could be in jeopardy if they have judgements them.
There is a delicious irony to this but at the same, time a real risk that the taxpayer (and taxpayers not yet born) could be asked yet again to bailout Ireland's wealthy elites.
Greed. Pure and simple.
But what if the judge is in the same golf club or in the Gonzaga old boys society along with the greedy barrister?
 
Last edited:

Aristodemus

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But what if the judge is in the same golf club or in the Gonzaga old boys society along with the greedy barrister?
Is this is a rhetorical question?
 

Watcher2

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You feel sorry for lawyers?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bank-to-pressure-wealthy-to-repay-millions-215201.html&ei=r4jQUMqwDJKzhAeL4ICoBg&usg=AFQjCNEGAD7lFg3V6wCF4zjTO8aWgTlvWQ

According to the article in the Examiner the lawyers themselves are playing the moron defence and borrowed (along with other wealthy professionals) hundreds of millions from Anglo to invest in geared property funds that have gone sour.
They owe money for the loans but are now going to sue the taxpayer (sorry IBRC) for their mistake.
How can they do this when IBRC did not exist at the time that they took out their loans?

Apparently many barristers are sweating as their ability to continue 'practicising' could be in jeopardy if they have judgements them.
There is a delicious irony to this but at the same, time a real risk that the taxpayer (and taxpayers not yet born) could be asked yet again to bailout Ireland's wealthy elites.
Greed. Pure and simple.
But what if the judge is in the same golf club or in the Gonzaga old boys society along with the greedy barrister?
Heavens forbid....what if the judges are in the same boat?
 

Analyzer

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Messages
46,187
I hope the "loser" here wins his case.

It might have implications for estate agents :p

They encouraged many people to make lousy investments. It would be fun seeing the soil they pants.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Just reading this story sums up the greed that swept this country for a few years. This lad inherits property worth €10m and squanders his inheritance by speculating on the Stock Market. Seems his defence is that he is a moron and the banks should have known that and not lent him any money. All the other issues raised by his legal team are just a muddying of the waters. He's getting no sympathy off me.

Man says he is not liable for €3.4m loans - The Irish Times - Tue, Dec 18, 2012
Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this case, any child who had two strokes before the age of 10 is likely to suffer severe psychological and physical developmental problems which could lead to probable mental health problems in their teens and adulthood. To call such a person a 'moron' is simplistic.
 

tigerben

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Sep 21, 2010
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4,614
It's amazing if these loans had worked out and profits made, this court case would never be taken. It seems that every one wants losses socialized and want no responsiblity on making bad choices.
 
B

birthday

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this case, any child who had two strokes before the age of 10 is likely to suffer severe psychological and physical developmental problems which could lead to probable mental health problems in their teens and adulthood. To call such a person a 'moron' is simplistic.
You are correct.
My point relates to the Examiner article which mentions that greedy Barristers and other professionals are taking legal action against the IBRC in relation to money they borrowed to invest in get rich quick 'geared' property funds which they do not want to pay back.
If these cases are somehow upheld the taxpayer will have to pay up ( or the elderly, sick or disabled)
 

Mr. Bumble

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You are correct.
My point relates to the Examiner article which mentions that greedy Barristers and other professionals are taking legal action against the IBRC in relation to money they borrowed to invest in get rich quick 'geared' property funds which they do not want to pay back.
If these cases are somehow upheld the taxpayer will have to pay up ( or the elderly, sick or disabled)
Those cases will deserve close scrutiny. The Irish legal system is an incestuous family.
 

Watcher2

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Were they not looked after in the 'review' of the proposed changes to Section 23 reliefs?
That relief is worthless if the recipients also bailed into non S.23 properties or if those properties have mortgages and are lying vacant.

Look at yer man Deonnelly and his wife Mary Pat now frowning in the UK looking for the easy bankruptcy option (to allow them to return to Ireland next year to see if there is anymore of a corpse worth raping).
 

Volatire

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Feb 25, 2012
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13,420
If the information in the article is accurate, then it appears that Davy Stockbrokers took the kid for a ride.

CFDs are highly leveraged derivative bets. Effectively the broker is lending the client money to gamble on the direction of stock prices. A stockbroker has a duty to determine
(1) the professional experience of the client
(2) the financial resources available to client
(3) the degree of risk appropriate to the client

In my experience, the Irish financial industry (banks, stockbrokers etc) tend not in the business of protecting their client's interests. For example, by providing low cost, appropriate financial products and by steering inexperienced clients away from inappropriate speculation.

The core business of the Irish financial industry is the merciless phucking over of their clients, safe in the knowledge that nothing will be done about it.
 

SilverSpurs

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Nov 27, 2009
Messages
5,550
I hope the "loser" here wins his case.

It might have implications for estate agents :p

They encouraged many people to make lousy investments. It would be fun seeing the soil they pants.
Indeed. There needs to be a test of 'reckless lending' by banks and also 'reckless advice' by those who are supposed to act in our best interests.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Jul 21, 2010
Messages
8,817
If the information in the article is accurate, then it appears that Davy Stockbrokers took the kid for a ride.

CFDs are highly leveraged derivative bets. Effectively the broker is lending the client money to gamble on the direction of stock prices. A stockbroker has a duty to determine
(1) the professional experience of the client
(2) the financial resources available to client
(3) the degree of risk appropriate to the client

In my experience, the Irish financial industry (banks, stockbrokers etc) tend not in the business of protecting their client's interests. For example, by providing low cost, appropriate financial products and by steering inexperienced clients away from inappropriate speculation.

The core business of the Irish financial industry is the merciless phucking over of their clients, safe in the knowledge that nothing will be done about it.
CFDs are for idiots, no one should EVER take out a leveraged position on individual shares. The only investments that are suitable for leveraged trading IMO are forex, stock indices and commodities, whether thats spreadbetting or trading futures contracts.

With individual shares there is too high a risk of the share price gapping or worse, wiping out your equity or even putting you into negative equity with a brokerage firm.
 

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