Green "1 cent text tax" budget proposal "doesn't add up"

White Horse

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In an effort to prove that the Greens are not in government just to make poor people pay more for their lightbulbs, their Deputy Leader Mary White has proposed that a 1 cent tax on mobile phone text messages would net the government an annual windfall of €1.4 billion.

However, it would appear that these calculations are al flawed as those coming out of the Dept. Of Finance.

Deputy leader Mary White estimates that a 1c tax on every text message could raise €1.4bn for the Exchequer.
"In tough economic times, it seems a fairly equitable way of getting revenue in quickly without inflicting too much pain," she said.
The tax would apply to all 25 million text messages sent by Irish mobile phone users every day, or more than eight billion texts every year. But rather than the €1.4bn that Ms White has claimed the move would raise, the real figure would be in the region of €81m.
The deputy said people were free to disagree with her calculations, based on the country's four million people sending an average of 10 texts a day each. But even this only adds up to €146m. Ms White has been discussing the plan with Communications Minister Eamon Ryan since last October and hopes to present it shortly to Mr Lenihan after a parliamentary party discussion.

It doesn't add up: Greens' text tax gets a wrong number - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

It is reassurring that the people have such economic gurus as Ms. White in government at a time of fiscal meltdown. :mad:
 


cyberianpan

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Her flaw isn't even at the exalted level of economics... just mere arithmetic

€1.4 billion implies 140 billions texts p/a

383 million per day

The highest figure she mentions is 40 million texts per day

cYp
 

ibis

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Her flaw isn't even at the exalted level of economics... just mere arithmetic

€1.4 billion implies 140 billions texts p/a

383 million per day

The highest figure she mentions is 40 million texts per day

cYp
It's pretty sad alright.
 

Munion

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Taxi for Deputy White...
 

SkatesOn

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Richard Bruton had also mentioned this last week on TV as an "innovative" way of raising taxes.

- seems none of them can add.
 

constitutionus

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anyone got the stats on how many texts we send a day ?

the 1.4 billion is bollocks but i could very easily see 140 million. some people i know dont use their phones for talking at all, myself included. i'd easily do 20 texts on a saturday night and probably average 4 of 5 a day (mind you im on 3 and only spend 5c a go)

i know we send a ridiculous amount for our population size but the only figure i can recall is related to phone ownership and how despite only having 4.5 million people theres about 14 million phones out there (inc's old ones lying in drawers after upgrades, works out at 3 per person ) :)
 

Andrew49

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AndrewSB49
AFAICT ppl will cease being Adctd2txt

EOM
 

White Horse

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anyone got the stats on how many texts we send a day ?

the 1.4 billion is bollocks but i could very easily see 140 million. some people i know dont use their phones for talking at all, myself included. i'd easily do 20 texts on a saturday night and probably average 4 of 5 a day (mind you im on 3 and only spend 5c a go)

i know we send a ridiculous amount for our population size but the only figure i can recall is related to phone ownership and how despite only having 4.5 million people theres about 14 million phones out there (inc's old ones lying in drawers after upgrades, works out at 3 per person ) :)
The lastest figures from Comreg are that there are 25m sent every day.

RTÉ News: 25m texts sent in Ireland every day

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/PR170608.pdf
 

constitutionus

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ok its still early in the morning and the maths is probably failing me but if theres 25 MILLION texts a day dosent that mean a 1c levy will net 91.25 million euro a year?

thats not bad for something most people wouldnt notice.
 

cyberianpan

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ok its still early in the morning and the maths is probably failing me but if theres 25 MILLION texts a day dosent that mean a 1c levy will net 91.25 million euro a year?

thats not bad for something most people wouldnt notice.
The levy idea itself is discussed on another thread

This thread is about Mary White's arithmetic flop

cYp
 

White Horse

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ok its still early in the morning and the maths is probably failing me but if theres 25 MILLION texts a day dosent that mean a 1c levy will net 91.25 million euro a year?

thats not bad for something most people wouldnt notice.
It is a decent idea which is why Richard Bruton was considering it.

The point of the thread is that it doesn't result in revenue of €1.4bn per annum as calculated by the Greens.
 
N

NM_123

We need Mary Coughlan on the case! She'll work out all the percentages and percentiles and percentilages.
 
G

GreenScene

The naysayers are out in force again. This is a pretty good idea that I would take much further. I would advocate a licence for the privilege of owning a mobile phone. Like the TV license.
 

greengoose

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The naysayers are out in force again. This is a pretty good idea that I would take much further. I would advocate a licence for the privilege of owning a mobile phone. Like the TV license.
The television license is merely another tax. The service it is supposed to be paying for, RTE, is lousy value for money. But that's another story. Taxing mobile phones is a great idea. WE can then go north of the border and get our phones and provider there. Such is modern technology.

The best idea for the Greens would be to get real. Stop talkin and start doing. Stop Minister's jollies on choppers would be a significant start!
 

geraghd

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Richard Bruton had also mentioned this last week on TV as an "innovative" way of raising taxes.

- seems none of them can add.
You're accusing someone with a Masters in Economics from Oxbridge as not being able to add?

Anyways, how is saying a tax is innovative equating to the inability to add?
 

diablo

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The naysayers are out in force again. This is a pretty good idea that I would take much further. I would advocate a licence for the privilege of owning a mobile phone. Like the TV license.

Brilliant.....how about an underwear license. It's a privilege to own more than 2 pairs. A club sandwich license because it's a privilege to have more than 2 slices of bread. And don't get me started on those double espressos!

It's all just indirect tax...why do we have to invent another way to charge it.....I've no time for anyone who thinks taxing anything is "innovative"
 

slx

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The naysayers are out in force again. This is a pretty good idea that I would take much further. I would advocate a licence for the privilege of owning a mobile phone. Like the TV license.
I would just point out that a TV license is NOT a charge for the prilage of owning a television, it's a crude way of charging for the production of public service television programming. It a blunderbuss way of extracting what amount to Pay-TV revenue from the TV viewing public in an era before multichannel television and before encryption technology following the logic that if you own a TV, you watch RTE services.

It is not a tax that goes into the general exchequer, it funds Public Service content on RTE and, to a small degree, on other commercial and community radio and TV stations.

I don't see how this is remotely comparable to a mobile phone charge, the sole purpose of which is to raise funds in lieu of lost tax revenue. It is as ludicrous as window tax or fire place tax which resulted in the ugly bricking up of windows in historic buildings in many places around Ireland in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Indirect taxation is invariably regressive. Tax has to be based on income as it reflects your ability to pay.

Underpants & bra tax would be as logical!
 

jimbo

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It is a decent idea which is why Richard Bruton was considering it.

The point of the thread is that it doesn't result in revenue of €1.4bn per annum as calculated by the Greens.
not sure about it being a decent idea. in the short term it might work for a while but there's ways around paying tax for texts, using smartphones with skype for example (or apps to use free online vodafone texts - but i'd imagine these would be taxed).

I suppose that the fact that these havent taken over yet with high current charges for texts would mean that people might not change because of the tax, but personally i can see a large drop in texts being sent and people moving to smartphones instead within a relatively short timeframe.

so even though the figure doesn't add up, i think it's even further off the mark again...
 


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