Green Party - what is their strategy for the next GE?



Squire Allworthy

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
Head office? Not really. But it's still my party. I'm not letting go.
If a few more people had my attitude, we would have taken it back by now.
Instead they go off forming splinter groups, joining the Labour party, and in other ways scattering to the four winds.
I expect we will hit rock bottom in the next election. I also think we deserve it.
But still I'm hanging in. One of these days I, and others like me, will take back the party.

A lot of very interesting and frank posts QuizMaster. Certainly the Green Party in Ireland seems to be a very different beast to the one that Caroline Lucas belongs to. The mistake I think you made was in not setting a marker early that you would not tolerate nonsense. There should have been hell to pay over the stroke played on the Tara Road and not meek acquiescence which then set the pattern. As for the bailout surely there are some of you with enough financial sense to see that this was yet another FF stroke, or bluff, but one so reckless that it was going to bankrupt the country?

People post about wanting the end of the Green Party and blame you for much. Personally I think you poorly represented. I don't think your demise would be any benefit to democracy. The Green Party has a constituency and perhaps it's represent its wishes?

You mention changing the ethos of that party and taking control back. Some years ago I was in the company of some members, whom I think have left. It seemed to me that there were problems long before this government. The reason I think goes like this:


  1. The party has limited funds and resources.
  2. Those with wealth and free time have potentially significant influence.
  3. When someone is elected to Europe, or where ever, their influence increases exponentially, because they effectively control a large portion of the resources available to the party.
  4. Elected TD's then have an interest in maintain a power base in the party and may seek to influence appointments and the selection of employees.
  5. TD's and other elected representatives have more prominence so that they will be asked to comment on policy and not necessarily the people more expert in the subject. Apparently the work of policy groups (or whatever they are called) could often be ignored by TDs as they made up policy on the hoof, as it were.
How you get to a position where each and every member is of equal standing and where the influence of TDs is curtailed and held in check, I do not know, as it is very difficult to run any organisation that relies on volunteers and where the most able may well be scattered across the country. Exceedingly difficult logistical and communications problems.

I wish you well.

Best strategy, pull the plug ASAP.

Unless you think that the current positioning in the negotiations with ECB-IMF etc will result in off loading the bank bailout liabilities what is the point in hanging around. Corporate donation legislation is not going to happen. It is bait to keep you dangling until FF decides to cut and run. The budget will be the same or worse whoever is elected. What the country needs is a government that has a strong mandate, one that can appear to have authority and able to put a bit of bite into any threats regarding default. If you dither and this government lasts until early Spring, and assuming no bailout agreement, then you effectively hamstring the new negotiating team as the country will be insolvent at that stage.

In circumstances like this the best strategy is not what is best for the Party but what is best for the country. End the nonsense now.
 

OceanFrog

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
833
A lot of very interesting and frank posts QuizMaster. Certainly the Green Party in Ireland seems to be a very different beast to the one that Caroline Lucas belongs to. The mistake I think you made was in not setting a marker early that you would not tolerate nonsense. There should have been hell to pay over the stroke played on the Tara Road and not meek acquiescence which then set the pattern. As for the bailout surely there are some of you with enough financial sense to see that this was yet another FF stroke, or bluff, but one so reckless that it was going to bankrupt the country?

People post about wanting the end of the Green Party and blame you for much. Personally I think you poorly represented. I don't think your demise would be any benefit to democracy. The Green Party has a constituency and perhaps it's represent its wishes?

You mention changing the ethos of that party and taking control back. Some years ago I was in the company of some members, whom I think have left. It seemed to me that there were problems long before this government. The reason I think goes like this:


  1. The party has limited funds and resources.
  2. Those with wealth and free time have potentially significant influence.
  3. When someone is elected to Europe, or where ever, their influence increases exponentially, because they effectively control a large portion of the resources available to the party.
  4. Elected TD's then have an interest in maintain a power base in the party and may seek to influence appointments and the selection of employees.
  5. TD's and other elected representatives have more prominence so that they will be asked to comment on policy and not necessarily the people more expert in the subject. Apparently the work of policy groups (or whatever they are called) could often be ignored by TDs as they made up policy on the hoof, as it were.
How you get to a position where each and every member is of equal standing and where the influence of TDs is curtailed and held in check, I do not know, as it is very difficult to run any organisation that relies on volunteers and where the most able may well be scattered across the country. Exceedingly difficult logistical and communications problems.

I wish you well.

Best strategy, pull the plug ASAP.

Unless you think that the current positioning in the negotiations with ECB-IMF etc will result in off loading the bank bailout liabilities what is the point in hanging around. Corporate donation legislation is not going to happen. It is bait to keep you dangling until FF decides to cut and run. The budget will be the same or worse whoever is elected. What the country needs is a government that has a strong mandate, one that can appear to have authority and able to put a bit of bite into any threats regarding default. If you dither and this government lasts until early Spring, and assuming no bailout agreement, then you effectively hamstring the new negotiating team as the country will be insolvent at that stage.

In circumstances like this the best strategy is not what is best for the Party but what is best for the country. End the nonsense now.
Great post.
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
We should be putting clear blue water between ourselves and Fianna Fail right now. It's too late, but we should do it anyway.
How we manage to do it without REALLY collapsing the economy I don't know.

By REALLY, I mean the banks don't open their doors, the ATMs are powered off, teachers and nurses don't get paid, etc.
The banks are being kept on life support, one day at a time, already.
 

Pauli

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,181
Sorry to hear of your own personal circumstances QM. I hope humanity prevails in the coming weeks and funding continues for those who genuinely need it most.

I think the words "Green Party" are now so toxic that the "brand" will have to be abandoned. The cynical behaviour vis aivis keeping FF in power has turned a tsunami of opinion against the party. Don't forget either that in the minds of many "green = some new tax". They never really understood that the introduction of taxes in the worst financial meltdown of the states history was perhaps not clever politics.

I keep hearing that many have left the party, disgusted at the behaviour of the leadership, and are continuing their involvement in politics outside a party structure. Perhaps these people could take the party back but they would be better off letting "The Green Party" die.

Because there is one terribly destructive political fact the Green Party can never live down: they were in government when the IMF were called in.
 

Freedom front

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
3,446
The Greens deserve their Faith , There will be no Green TD's elected in next election

They will be remembered For Introducing Carbon Tax which increased the cost of Fuel
They will be remembered for promising to increase the Fuel allowance for Old age Pensioners & people on the dole, WHICH THEY DID NOT HONOR
They will be remembered for increasing Car Tax
Then will be remembered for being the Greedy Power Hungry Low Life's they are
 

Squire Allworthy

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
We should be putting clear blue water between ourselves and Fianna Fail right now. It's too late, but we should do it anyway.
How we manage to do it without REALLY collapsing the economy I don't know.

By REALLY, I mean the banks don't open their doors, the ATMs are powered off, teachers and nurses don't get paid, etc.
The banks are being kept on life support, one day at a time, already.

Do you seriously believe that keeping FF in government an extra month or two is going to do the country any good at all?

With good grace call for an election as the country needs a new government with a clear mandate. Make very sure that you are the ones that end this government.

If you want to be clever about reasons there are plenty, but I think uncluttered clarity would be a better approach right now.
 

kodak

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
185
The Hippie wasters will just think themselves lucky if they keep their pensions.
 

Clondalkin

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
85
They should use the same strategy for the next GE as they are using in Donegal SW and not bother to turn up. The result will not be any different if they do put up a candidate anyway.
 

LiquidPaddy

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
327
The greens will just baste themselves for roasting and stuff an onion up their ***es - like any turkey does at Xmas. They are finished, and they never were any sort of serious Green / Ecology party...
 

Superindigoman

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
198
Get on a few of them bikes in dublin there all for, and just keep cycling and cycling aaannnddd ccyycc...............
 


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