Greens: Make an example of them

oceanclub

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,300
Website
oceanclub.blogspot.com
See, here's the thing. Even now, I don't actually detest the Green Party in the same I detest Fianna Fail. They're basically the insecure small kid who desides to team up with the class bully. I think some of them even indeed had good intentions when they sipped from the poisoned chalice; they were just mindboggingly naive about both FF and the state of the country's finances.

But at the next election, I'll be treating their candidates the same as Fianna Fail. Why? Basically, as a warning to others. We've already seen one small party - the PDs being wiped out as a result of coalition with FF. The same needs to happen to the current Green Party. It needs to be utterly destroyed, smashed, what have you. That way, from now on, hopefully the realisation will dawn on parties that coalition with FF is utterly toxic. (And yes, that includes Labour; even now, some muppets in my party think that coalition with FF should be on the table.)

This would mean that even if FF isn't itself smashed at the next election - and it would seem there is a core vote there that, no matter what the party does, they'll still vote for them - their coalition prospects would be hampered or non-existent, meaning their future chances to wreck the country will be severely hampered.

What say you?

P.
 


S

SeamusNapoleon

I'm all for it.

But do you just mean that, by not giving the Greens any vote, other parties will take note and avoid coalition with Fianna Fáil?

I mean, how to actually send a warning to all parties to ensure Fianna Fáil maintains pariah status - at least until our children have reached pensionable age (75 at this rate, I imagine...)?
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
Well I suppose the Labour Party was sent to Coventry for going in with Fianna Fail in 1992, and are only now regaining respectability and are still slightly contaminated.

I think after this election you will see a big change in the names and faces that run the Green Party.
Worldwide, the Green movement is gaining popularity. In Germany, the Greens are almost the 2nd largest party, being only slightly behind the SPD. In Cologne, and maybe other cities too, it is the largest party.
Die Grüne did spend time in government and were punished as a result, but not very badly and not for long.

Of course the Greens will take a massive setback in the forthcoming election, but it will be just one chapter in their history. A chapter called "bitter lessons learned".
 

oceanclub

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,300
Website
oceanclub.blogspot.com
But do you just mean that, by not giving the Greens any vote, other parties will take note and avoid coalition with Fianna Fáil?
Yup, exactly. I imagine most people who voted for the Greens in 2007 wouldn't be naturally FF-to-the-core types. After the last three parties that FF were in coalition with were either wiped out or, in Labour's case, severely damaged, it will act as a warning. I think to the make the point, the damage here has to be fatal.
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
Yup, exactly. I imagine most people who voted for the Greens in 2007 wouldn't be naturally FF-to-the-core types. After the last three parties that FF were in coalition with were either wiped out or, in Labour's case, severely damaged, it will act as a warning. I think to the make the point, the damage here has to be fatal.
A bit parochial, considering the global and long term nature of the Green agenda.
Perhaps, if there is any hope for Ireland, we should start voting because of the future, instead of the past, no?
 

paddywhack

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
280
Thought the Greens would have learned from both Labour's and PDs experience with Fianna Fail, but the lure of power seems to be too great to resist.
 

Hewson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,271
Both my wife and I voted for the Greens in 2007, both of us being strong environmentalists. But the behaviour of the party over the last couple of years has left us both disillusioned and disgusted. The Greens have been used, and have allowed themselves to be used, as little more than a disposable crutch holding up the Fianna Fail cripple. They should have left Government in September 2008, and would have done so if their principles meant more to them than the novelty of being chauffeured around by overpaid bodyguards.

Their political naivety came to the fore when Gormley cynically pulled the plug on this discredited, incompetent and rotting carcass of a government just because FF backbenchers and independents were jumping ship. That showed, as much as their blind willingness to overlook their partners' corrupt practices, that the Greens have forsaken all principles in favour of short-term political advantage.

They'll get the hiding of a lifetime at the election and will revert to being a lobby group, almost irrelevant. And while they'll never be as rotten as their erstwhile coalition partners (what party could be?) I hope the lessons of pairing up with one of Europe's most vile, toxic and destructive political parties will be learned by others.
 

oceanclub

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,300
Website
oceanclub.blogspot.com
A bit parochial, considering the global and long term nature of the Green agenda.
See, that's the classic Green Party excuse; that, as Saviours of the Planet(tm), we're morally superior to all other political parties and thus exempt from any kind of political responsibility.
We can basically do what we like, and if you vote against us, well, you might as well be clubbing a baby seal. Giving John Gormley a 10th preference is akin to molesting a bushbaby.

It doesn't matter if we, well, didn't actually _do_ anything much environment-wise, propping up a party famous for its links to councillors and developers associated with planning abuses, allowing a motorway near a site of national significance. It's the thought that counts.

P.
 

roc_

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,344
See, here's the thing. Even now, I don't actually detest the Green Party in the same I detest Fianna Fail. They're basically the insecure small kid who desides to team up with the class bully. I think some of them even indeed had good intentions when they sipped from the poisoned chalice; they were just mindboggingly naive about both FF and the state of the country's finances.

But at the next election, I'll be treating their candidates the same as Fianna Fail. Why? Basically, as a warning to others. We've already seen one small party - the PDs being wiped out as a result of coalition with FF. The same needs to happen to the current Green Party. It needs to be utterly destroyed, smashed, what have you. That way, from now on, hopefully the realisation will dawn on parties that coalition with FF is utterly toxic. (And yes, that includes Labour; even now, some muppets in my party think that coalition with FF should be on the table.)

This would mean that even if FF isn't itself smashed at the next election - and it would seem there is a core vote there that, no matter what the party does, they'll still vote for them - their coalition prospects would be hampered or non-existent, meaning their future chances to wreck the country will be severely hampered.

What say you?

P.
No. I think they are much, MUCH worse than this.

As I see it, they initially used a level of appeal and tone equivalent to a personage like Gandhi, to draw in their followers - preaching world changing, liberating doctrines, to live in a decent harmony with the world and with each other, to empower people with small, appropriate technologies, and so on...

But then, they got their hands on the garbs of power and their words transmuted into a very different reality.

They became merely the political wing of the renewable energy industry, and the green industry in general. Eamon Ryan in particular spent all of his energy trying to foster a green industry BUBBLE (and make no mistake it was a bubble - the economics and value propositions made even less sense than that of the early internet tech bubble). This is not even mentioning the cronyism that was involved in it all.

They are hypocrites beyond belief.
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
See, that's the classic Green Party excuse; that, as Saviours of the Planet(tm), we're morally superior to all other political parties and thus exempt from any kind of political responsibility.
We can basically do what we like, and if you vote against us, well, you might as well be clubbing a baby seal. Giving John Gormley a 10th preference is akin to molesting a bushbaby.

It doesn't matter if we, well, didn't actually _do_ anything much environment-wise, propping up a party famous for its links to councillors and developers associated with planning abuses, allowing a motorway near a site of national significance. It's the thought that counts.

P.
You have form as a climate science denier, unless I'm mistaking you for someone else, so it's hardly surprising you give the Greens a few boots to the ribs when they're on the floor.
 

TradCat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Messages
1,989
The system has to be changed. Selling your soul should should not be the only way to have influence. FG/Lab will have a huge mandate but no real say on the economy. The legacy of their government should be a transformation of the system.
 
Last edited:

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
...the Greens have forsaken all principles in favour of short-term political advantage...
In fact it's the exact opposite.
The Greens have opted to support the most unpopular budget ever, then present themselves to the electorate straight away. Hardly looking to save their own skins.
You can accuse them of plenty of things, but try to get it right. You are very wrong on this one.
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
The system has to be changed. Selling your should should not be the only way to have influence. FG/Lab will have a huge mandate but no real say on the economy. The legacy of their government should be a transformation of the system.
I'm with you 100% there.
 

Newffowner

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
94
Well I suppose the Labour Party was sent to Coventry for going in with Fianna Fail in 1992, and are only now regaining respectability and are still slightly contaminated.

I think after this election you will see a big change in the names and faces that run the Green Party.
Worldwide, the Green movement is gaining popularity. In Germany, the Greens are almost the 2nd largest party, being only slightly behind the SPD. In Cologne, and maybe other cities too, it is the largest party.
Die Grüne did spend time in government and were punished as a result, but not very badly and not for long.

Of course the Greens will take a massive setback in the forthcoming election, but it will be just one chapter in their history. A chapter called "bitter lessons learned".
Looking at the way the current leadership manipulates the party, I have to disagree on changing faces.

With regard to the Global Green movement, all politics are local not international, and these muppets just bankrupted the country, so it'll be a very long time before the Greens reemerge on the national scene in a big way, especially if the main stream parties employ a greenish agenda
 

flavirostris

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
24,570
I expect them to be destroyed with maybe Sargent or possibly Ryan hanging on.

Another victim of the FF praying mantis
 

oceanclub

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,300
Website
oceanclub.blogspot.com
You have form as a climate science denier, unless I'm mistaking you for someone else
Yes, you are mistaking me for someone else. Please quote me or retract this.

In interests of full disclosure, I gave my no. 2 preference to Gormley in the last election, and my number 1 to him in the election before that.

P.
 

Keith-M

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
15,668
Website
www.allkindsofeverything.ie
The Greens have been been a disaster over the past six months. I mean who voted Green in order to protect the featherbedding in our education system? Who voted Green so that the price of electricity could go up when everything else is coming down?

The final straw came last week when Gormley tried to turn the Four Year Plan press conference into a Green PPB. It was BEYOND pathetic. The Green are essentially a group of self-deluded, publicity seeking amateurs that we need to remove from parliamentary politics at the first available opportunity. They can go back to being a ginger group with their petty and outdated agenda, but they need to be removed from LH now.

I'm thinking of ruinning an election blog which will guide people towards tactical voting to make sure the green menace is eliminated.
 
Last edited:

Hewson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,271
In fact it's the exact opposite.
The Greens have opted to support the most unpopular budget ever, then present themselves to the electorate straight away. Hardly looking to save their own skins.
You can accuse them of plenty of things, but try to get it right. You are very wrong on this one.
Of course they'll support the budget, they're still in government. They could hardly do otherwise. As for presenting themselves for election afterwards, all they're doing is trying to jump the gun on what's coming down the line. Cowen is a zombie, his party is in disarray, two by-elections are due and the independents are running away. Gormley is an opportunistic cynic. If he had any sense of moral outrage he'd have left government ages ago and forced an election where we would have had a say in how the economic and fiscal crisis should be played out. Instead he hung in there, disregarded the rights of the electorate and propped up the most reviled administration in the State's history. An administration that has sold out this country's future welfare to amend for its own stupidity, incompetence and moral corruption.

The Greens deserved to be trashed. Fianna Fail deserve political annihilation. And both deserve to be deprived of their post-power perks, more examples of the ethical bankruptcy of both parties.
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,193
Website
www.quizmatic.com
Yes, you are mistaking me for someone else. Please quote me or retract this.

In interests of full disclosure, I gave my no. 2 preference to Gormley in the last election, and my number 1 to him in the election before that.

P.
Looking back over previous posts, I must retract this with sincere apologies for questioning your motivation in any way.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top