Hans-Joachim Marseille, WW2 German fighter ace with 158 victories.

silverharp

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Stumbled over the movie The Star of Africa on Youtube about a young German pilot who from the age of 20 to 22 chalked up 158 air victories before being killed when his plane malfunctioned and was killed bailing out. He got off to a slow start in the Battle of Britain , was transferred to North Africa as a punishment for various acts of insubordination.
He developed his own style of attacking allied formations which involved very complex flying and was more likely to shoot the enemy planes side on while inside the turning circle of the plane
By 42 the Luftwaffe was outnumbered 10 to 1 so the German pilots were always at the edge of exhaustion as they had to be in the air multiple times a day. You have to admire his character at such a young age



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Marseille


an example of the respect he had for the enemy by taking risks to return pilot's papers.

30 May, Marseille performed another mercy mission after witnessing his 65th victory—Pilot Officer Graham George Buckland of No. 250 Squadron RAF—strike the tail plane of his fighter and fall to his death when the parachute did not open. After landing he drove out to the crash site. The P-40 had landed over Allied lines but they found the dead pilot within German territory. Marseille marked his grave, collected his papers and verified his identity, then flew to Buckland's airfield to deliver a letter of regret. Buckland died two days before his 21st birthday.

[video=youtube;-zVKVWUpQps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zVKVWUpQps&t[/video]



watchable enough German movie called The Star of Africa

[video=youtube;XDd8I7qop_c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDd8I7qop_c&t[/video]
 


razorblade

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Whatever your opinions on Germany in WW2 you have to hand it to him that was a hugely impressive accomplishment.
 

balisong

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Erich Hartmann ended the war with 350+ kills :eek:
Barkhorn 300 or so

The Germans produced pilots with ridiculous aerial victory numbers: up to three figure tallies. Unlike the Allies, they didnt rotate their pilots out of combat, they just kept fighting usually. That favoured the exceptional and doomed the poor bastards who weren't
 

silverharp

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Erich Hartmann ended the war with 350+ kills :eek:
Barkhorn 300 or so

The Germans produced pilots with ridiculous aerial victory numbers: up to three figure tallies. Unlike the Allies, they didnt rotate their pilots out of combat, they just kept fighting usually. That favoured the exceptional and doomed the poor bastards who weren't
hartmann made it to the end, he seemed to be a more calculating pilot, Funny how the russian pilots wouldnt fight him if they saw his personal markings and that his plane was assigned to new pilots as they would be left alone
 

Prester Jim

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Erich Hartmann ended the war with 350+ kills :eek:
Barkhorn 300 or so

The Germans produced pilots with ridiculous aerial victory numbers: up to three figure tallies. Unlike the Allies, they didnt rotate their pilots out of combat, they just kept fighting usually. That favoured the exceptional and doomed the poor bastards who weren't
Which is said to have contributed to their defeat, they should have had these guys training others, not flying till they dropped.
 

silverharp

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Which is said to have contributed to their defeat, they should have had these guys training others, not flying till they dropped.
another issue reading about this guy was that they his unit took on a support role for him so they held back going after their own targets which was overall probably less efficient
 

Fritzbox

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Erich Hartmann ended the war with 350+ kills :eek:
Barkhorn 300 or so

The Germans produced pilots with ridiculous aerial victory numbers: up to three figure tallies. Unlike the Allies, they didnt rotate their pilots out of combat, they just kept fighting usually. That favoured the exceptional and doomed the poor bastards who weren't
Most of these aerial victories were achieved on the Eastern Front where the opposition (the Soviets) were not as well trained or as well equipped.
 

Telstar 62

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The Luftwaffe certainly wasn't outnumbered ten to one in 1940.

They had massive numerical superiority.

Fair play to the RAF....:cool:
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Most of these aerial victories were achieved on the Eastern Front where the opposition (the Soviets) were not as well trained or as well equipped.
Hmmm...it's curious how we hear about the bravery and success of Israeli pilots during the 6 day war, mole cricket 19 etc., but if anyone dares to mention poor quality MiGs, badly trained Syrian/Egyptian pilots and American technological ingenuity as a reason for their aerial superiority.......




:cool:
 

Fritzbox

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Hmmm...it's curious how we hear about the bravery and success of Israeli pilots during the 6 day war, mole cricket 19 etc., but if anyone dares to mention poor quality MiGs, badly trained Syrian/Egyptian pilots and American technological ingenuity as a reason for their aerial superiority.......
Almost all of the factors mentioned above certainly contributed to Israel's many military successes against the various Arab countries - is there an alternative narrative?
 

silverharp

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The Luftwaffe certainly wasn't outnumbered ten to one in 1940.

They had massive numerical superiority.

Fair play to the RAF....:cool:
meant in North Africa
 

parentheses

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Hmmm...it's curious how we hear about the bravery and success of Israeli pilots during the 6 day war, mole cricket 19 etc., but if anyone dares to mention poor quality MiGs, badly trained Syrian/Egyptian pilots and American technological ingenuity as a reason for their aerial superiority.......




:cool:
They were using French jets in the 6 day war AFAIK
 

flavirostris

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The most incredible Luftwaffe ace was Hans Ulrich Rudel, the famous Stuka pilot. That was truly a 'top gun', with his countless Soviet tanks destroyed and even a battleship in the Barbarossa campaign.

He was also a fanatical Nazi and continued to believe in Hitler's greatness long after the war.

There was a controversial flyover of his gravesite in 1982 by the German airforce, who were forced to deny they were honouring the well-known National Socialist.
 

DexterGreen22

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Too bad he was fighting for a regime that invaded countries and killed for selfish strategic reasons, the British and the French were a benevolent force for good out to stop fascism and were completely devoid of selfish strategic interests, he would have been better on their side.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Almost all of the factors mentioned above certainly contributed to Israel's many military successes against the various Arab countries - is there an alternative narrative?
No. I think it's generally agreed that the SAF/EAF's ACMs, SAM batteries and in particular, C2 were poor quality. Whether the Soviet supplied equipment was denuded of its more sophisticated/luxury bits and bobs is arguable, but contact with the IAF invariably resulted in a turkey shoot.

Of course pointing that out can touch a few nerves!


I agree with you about the Luftwaffe btw, although I still think Hartmann/Rudel's combat records are phenomenal.
 
D

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I'd be sceptical of that, IMO it was probably more related to factors like pilot training, and the fact the Israelis had advantage of surprise.
I think the Israelis had captured a Soviet MiG, and could study its flight characteristics, which would have been very beneficial in formulating ACMs to defeat them.

I've never been convinced that the MiGs deployed in proxy wars were the "real" thing. I've often wondered if the Soviets supplied monkey versions, just to see how well their basic performance was in Air combat.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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The Luftwaffe certainly wasn't outnumbered ten to one in 1940.

They had massive numerical superiority.

Fair play to the RAF....:cool:
What do you mean by 'massive'?

The Germans did not enjoy an overwhelming numerical advantage in either the Battle of France or the Battle of Britain.
 


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