Has P.ie ever made a difference?

OceanFrog

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This thread is inspired by something I read here a while ago. I cant find the post now, but a FF'er made a very interesting point that the debate and discussion here has no effect and makes no difference to anything. He/she said that if we think anyone of importance or power in FF/FG is carefully reading this site and considering the points made we are deluded ... because they are not. I know that Dan Boyle from the GP is (was?) a poster here, but I'm not sure if he's still around.

There is a huge amount of (sometimes very well imformed) debate on this site. People get very passionate. Good points are made. Is it really all for nowt?

So, does P.ie make a difference? Has this site ever had any effect on Govt policy? And if not, is this just a talking shop/debating forum where it's good to come once in a while to blow off steam?
 


Tommy Tayto

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Not in the least. P.ie is a talking shop, and the members are simply throwing verbal rocks. I'm sure the more revolutionary like to think that they are making a difference, but the reality is p.ie is just a place for highly opinionated people to have themselves heard. I think the closest we have come to actually being part of something was the Dwyer thread and the Emma Kiernan thread, at least they made the newspapers. (And it really says a lot about the state of things when the Kiernan thread went global and the Dwyer one didn't...)
 

Captain Con O'Sullivan

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I'd say that many Irish politicians keep an eye on this site, if only to wonder how their press releases and statements are received.

Actually- scrub that. I'd say its required reading for those who work for public affairs agencies in Ireland.

And judging by the way propogandists drop in loaded subjects every now and then I'd say there's an eye kept on the forum alright.
 

Barry

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I'd say that many Irish politicians keep an eye on this site, if only to wonder how their press releases and statements are received.
But politics.ie wouldnt be a measure of how their press releases are being recieved as the demographic makeup is extremely biased. The lack f females being most evident.

If only for curiosity, id say they browse every so often.
 

Captain Con O'Sullivan

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But politics.ie wouldnt be a measure of how their press releases are being recieved as the demographic makeup is extremely biased. The lack f females being most evident.

If only for curiosity, id say they browse every so often.
At the risk of getting myself buried in protest there is a lack of female input evident in Irish politics and that isn't always because of men.

I speak as someone who has campaigned door to door in Ireland although I hope things have changed in the last twenty years. If I had a pound for every women I met at a door and then went off to fetch a father or husband I'd be driving a much better car:)

I hope things have changed. Nothing worse than hearing a girl or a woman on election day asking the nearest chap 'who should I vote for?'.

Seriously.
 

lapsedmethodist

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At the risk of getting myself buried in protest there is a lack of female input evident in Irish politics and that isn't always because of men.

I speak as someone who has campaigned door to door in Ireland although I hope things have changed in the last twenty years. If I had a pound for every women I met at a door and then went off to fetch a father or husband I'd be driving a much better car:)

I hope things have changed. Nothing worse than hearing a girl or a woman on election day asking the nearest chap 'who should I vote for?'.

Seriously.
You've obviously never canvassed this house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Barry

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At the risk of getting myself buried in protest there is a lack of female input evident in Irish politics and that isn't always because of men.

I speak as someone who has campaigned door to door in Ireland although I hope things have changed in the last twenty years. If I had a pound for every women I met at a door and then went off to fetch a father or husband I'd be driving a much better car:)

I hope things have changed. Nothing worse than hearing a girl or a woman on election day asking the nearest chap 'who should I vote for?'.

Seriously.
I didnt blame it on men. I just think that if someone was looking for a demographic representation, then this isnt the place. I would presume this forum has a high percentage of young male middle class college/school students, with the odd oufella, graduate, worker and female knocking about. I could be wrong, but its certainly not represenative of Irish society - or Irish politics for that matter. So I dont think the reception a press release gets may be accurate.
 
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They were sufficiently bothered to send Ahern's lawyers after five of us for alleged libel, when there was no libel. Two or three of us were reporting the Tribunal transcripts in detail every day, certain things were being picked up in the Mail, the Tribune, and on the radio. They wanted to know our names. Don't be entirely taken in when FF say it. It is true that most of the time it is just internet grafitti, but occasionally points do get across and get broadcast more widely, and FF know that. The Dwyer thread is an example where we were actually off the ground and running while RTE and the other papers were still in bed, if it hadn't been for some of us digging before certain sites were shut down then they'd have had no material at all to print...
 

Captain Con O'Sullivan

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Sorry, Barry, didn't mean to come across as 'accusational'... but we don't know how many females there are behind the names.

I know there are some committed female political debaters (and one or two dingbats who travel in knickers rather than boxers) but I take your point and would add that I hope more women are taking note of politics and voting the way they want rather than giving their husbands/fathers a second vote.. that was a shocking discovery when I dipped a toe into canvassing/politics at home.
 

OceanFrog

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They were sufficiently bothered to send Ahern's lawyers after five of us for alleged libel, when there was no libel. Two or three of us were reporting the Tribunal transcripts in detail every day, certain things were being picked up in the Mail, the Tribune, and on the radio. They wanted to know our names. Don't be entirely taken in when FF say it. It is true that most of the time it is just internet grafitti, but occasionally points do get across and get broadcast more widely, and FF know that. The Dwyer thread is an example where we were actually off the ground and running while RTE and the other papers were still in bed, if it hadn't been for some of us digging before certain sites were shut down then they'd have had no material at all to print...
Wow!

Really?
 

Captain Con O'Sullivan

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Its always great watching politicians having to praise the internet and resulting communications technology through gritted teeth.

Its the one media channel they struggle to control so they hate it and spend much time either figuring out how to make it work for them through tame bloggers and websites in the way that newspapers rolled over for them in the past.
 

Raketemensch

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It is very difficult to measure the complex network effect that a website like politics.ie can have. The regular posters on here have their opinion shaped by the debates and they in turn talk to their families, colleagues and friends and post on other forums. All these people talk to other people, blog, vote when they can, shop, start businesses etc. Cultural ideas and opinions are thus created and spread by those who are engaged enough to debate them.

Politics.ie is only a part of this network of opinion formation but it is a significant one in a tiny monocultural nation such as Ireland.
 

Tommy Tayto

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Its always great watching politicians having to praise the internet and resulting communications technology through gritted teeth.

Its the one media channel they struggle to control so they hate it and spend much time either figuring out how to make it work for them through tame bloggers and websites in the way that newspapers rolled over for them in the past.
True. I think we can expect a serious attempt at restriction on t'internet very soon, under the guise of the old "combating terrorism" nugget. I believe Senator Jay Rockefeller has already attempted to do so in America.
 

Captain Con O'Sullivan

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Recent events in the UK where a blog-site basically has put paid to the careers of somewhere between 50 and 100 MPs (Guido Fawkes re the expenses scams and the Labour attack site scandal/Derek Draper) is a bit of a wake-up call.

That was the big one for me- where bloggers actually replaced the print media in the holding the politicians to account stakes.

Ireland is a small country and something like politics.ie can have a considerable effect in terms of viral marketing I'd say...
 

sandar

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the guido fawkes blog is written by someone well connected and ifnormed, and who is not hiding his ID from public vioew. Its a news site, a little different tio P.ie.
And it was the telegraph which uncovered the expenses, no blog would have tghe moeny to do that.
 

sandals

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Were some of the John O'Donoghue expenses stories not posted here first?
The link between the UK Chauffeur company and Fianna Fail made all the papers.
 

Cael

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This thread is inspired by something I read here a while ago. I cant find the post now, but a FF'er made a very interesting point that the debate and discussion here has no effect and makes no difference to anything. He/she said that if we think anyone of importance or power in FF/FG is carefully reading this site and considering the points made we are deluded ... because they are not. I know that Dan Boyle from the GP is (was?) a poster here, but I'm not sure if he's still around.

There is a huge amount of (sometimes very well imformed) debate on this site. People get very passionate. Good points are made. Is it really all for nowt?

So, does P.ie make a difference? Has this site ever had any effect on Govt policy? And if not, is this just a talking shop/debating forum where it's good to come once in a while to blow off steam?
I think the importance of this site is not that it gets any imformation to the politicians, but that it gets information - that the state and corporate media usually suppress - to the public. Its also a good testing ground for ideas as there is a range of opinion to be found on this site that would be unthinkable in any other media.
 

Raketemensch

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Has P.ie ever made a difference?

"... a forum where, even when you find posters above the semi-literate level, the intellects behind them are indoctrinated and entrenched to such a degree that the discussions of topics they agree are feasible rarely rise above the sort of exchange you imagine between opposing sides at a soccer match."
That's not true at all, sure there are plenty of semi-literate and trolling posts but they are easily skipped over by the discerning user to find many threads of rich debate between posters who frequently differ over subtle but important differences of opinion.

It's all in the argument anyway, doesn''t matter if someone is bleating that they have this qualification or that job, if they get their a55 kicked on a point, everyone can see that they are full of sh1t.
 

Cael

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Has P.ie ever made a difference?

No.

"... a forum where, even when you find posters above the semi-literate level, the intellects behind them are indoctrinated and entrenched to such a degree that the discussions of topics they agree are feasible rarely rise above the sort of exchange you imagine between opposing sides at a soccer match."
That sounds more like the state and corporate media - except that only one set of fanatics are allowed speak/write on them.
 


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