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Has the aspiration to unify Ireland reached a dead end?


theloner

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Anti-GFA republicans have been quite active since the respective number of groups split from the main republican movement SF over the last decade. Several groups have emerged, most notably the RIRA and ONH since the signing of the GFA. A number of 'traditional' republican targets have been killed since then, including PSNI members, British soldiers and most recently a prison officer. An unlikely feud with ex-provisionals or SF has yet to emerge, perhaps due to the significant support SF has in nationalist areas of the north. The support for these groups is small, some major figures within northern republicanism have joined these groups but electorally wise, the support isn't there.

In the media and through their own various media outlets, anti-GFA republicans have been absolutely scathing of mainstream republicanism, the serve has been returned by members within SF. Dialogue seems out of the question as the mistrust has hit an all time low.

Anti-GFA groups seem to hit a grey area when describing and talking about their feeling around the various armed groups willing to continue to strive to 'drive the Brits out'. Many of them accuse SF of hypocrisy, of that there is no doubt on several fronts, however one thing SF did, even though it always felt a grave injustice was made when it was referred to the two cheeks of the same arse of the PIRA, was the fact it made a statement after every PIRA attack. It had a public face to explain and give an explanation even though that face was not always necessarily of the PIRA. The anti-GFA military groups have no political representative like the PIRA had in SF, or less so the CIRA had in RSF.

Bombs won't unify Ireland, similarly so, it seems unlikely politics will either. Persuasion is the new buzz word within SF, it seems this is a powerful tool, but perhaps the NI is too polarized for one side to be persuaded by the other, in fact, my own opinion is unionists have more persuasive power over moderate nationalism then republicanism and nationalism has over unionism. Status-quo is a default option and this is the obvious choice for an ever increasingly apolitical population of NI. People want to live, and in a relatively peaceful NI, surely the circumstances for republicanism in relation to the unification of Ireland are absent. SF is growing in the south, probably because of their social politics more than their national aspirations, but let's not forget the fact a quasi-unionist party is in government in the south, not to mention a fundamentalist, christian ring wing party is the largest party north of the border. Persuasion tactics or merely a waste of time?

Republicanism seems to have been backed into a cul-de-sac, the IRA is gone, SF has been 'house trained' so much so even the DUP is willing to do business with it. Articles 2&3 are gone, Stormont is up and running as a 'Northern Irish' assembly and most republicans north and south have fully signed up to a partitioned agreement, giving full backing to a police service north of the border. The PSNI and RUC are different, with that there is no doubt, but both served the same jurisdictions and have the aim to uphold Northern Ireland. Many within SF talk of the GFA as being a stepping stone, perhaps that is true, but there was a certain big man from county Cork who said likewise and look at the party his legacy left behind.

So, lads and ladies, where does it go from here? The tick-tock analogy is hardly revolutionary republicanism and for those who abide by that analysis, I hope you have quite a large of batteries stockpiled as it might be a while.
 

Evergreenfinch

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I think what has emerged is that the majority of Republicans and Nationalists were not Republican and Nationalist after all. They have always been happy to live in a Northern Ireland which is part of the United Kingdom, the real problem was that they didn't want to live in one that was ruled by a single religion obsessed party.
 

Congalltee

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No, the aspiration is very much alive. But there's unlikely to be much progress under FG while it is dealing with the economic mess. That said there has been little push from ff or sf.

But the aspiration for united ireland must be based on a much broader vision than Dublin just replacing Westminster. Equality, rule of law, respect for human dignity and diversity. The vested interests must yield to republican values.

There are only two choices UK incl NI or United Ireland. The people on this island voted for that and that it would decided by two polls in the 6 and 26 counties. That is the process.the anti-GFA are irrelevant. Opinion polls in the south demonstrate that it would vote yes to unity. It will happen - just not in the next decade. But in my lifetime, I believe it will - if the vested interests are sidelined, pragmatic unionists can be persuaded and the uk weans NI off its subsidies and sustainable economic growth is applied to this nation.
 

Congalltee

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As this is in the SF forum:
1. What is it doing in the NI executive that makes unity nearer?
2. What has it achieved in the last decade which will lead to unity?
3. What, if anything, has it done in the South to advance the cause of unity?
4. What will it do with local government, it's funding, the nhs/Hse, education particularly at final year, will the euro be automatically the currency, what will happen with civil services?
5. What cross border body with executive power has been set up and what has it achieved?
 

NMunsterman

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Nationalists all over the country know that Nationalists will be in the majority in the North by 2020 - and this will change the dynamics fundamentally.

What Nationalists want to do with this position of majority power is up to Nationalists - it's clear that Nationalists are pretty chilled out about the future as they know that their destiny is entirely in their own hands.
 

Cruimh

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John Hume in 1974:


If we get an agreed Ireland that is unity. What constitutional or institutional forms such an agreed Ireland takes is irrelevant because it would represent agreement by the people of this country as to how they should be governed
(Irish Times, 17 June 1974).
The GFA was therefore a form of unification. That needs to be remembered. Where we go from here should not be dictated by redundant and obsolete attitudes.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/culture-community/210793-us-them-relationships-united-ireland-2.html#post6778038

We had a good discussion on that thread - the issue now - whether further unification is to based on separatism?
 

Frosty1

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Above - nonsense. They dont know anything because they dont know or care what the breakdown is. Trust me.

And yes of course.
 

Cruimh

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Nationalists all over the country know that Nationalists will be in the majority in the North by 2020 - and this will change the dynamics fundamentally.
Good Luck with that :D

http://www.politics.ie/forum/culture-community/205605-17-people-ni-want-united-ireland-what-do-people-republic-think.html

From 2011

The Kingdom will remain United

Most significantly, the poll of 1,200 Northern Irish citizens revealed that 52% of Catholics favoured the union with Britain rather than a united Ireland. In a further blow to the hopes of a united Ireland advanced by the likes of Sinn Féin, only 4% of Protestants want Irish unity. They continue to solidly favour the status quo, even if many of them do not vote in local elections.
 

Cruimh

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We all know history is cyclical and similar events always repeat... To me, the current period is reminiscent to the "relatively uneventful" 50's and early 60's

The IRA border campaign was unsuccessful and unsupported by the majority of people who had enough of war after WWII...

The unionist government denying nationalists their civil rights was the spark that kicked it all off.
Untrue.
 

NMunsterman

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Cruimh

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theloner

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Why did the mods keep the NI thread and dump the SF one, specifically against my wishes. StringJack did it and Irish unification is about Ireland, not merely NI. Also, it raises questions of SF who are an active bunch on p.ie. Even put it in the UK forum ffs.

Thanks in advance for your explanation.
 

eoghanacht

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I think what has emerged is that the majority of Republicans and Nationalists were not Republican and Nationalist after all. They have always been happy to live in a Northern Ireland which is part of the United Kingdom, the real problem was that they didn't want to live in one that was ruled by a single religion obsessed party.

Or that they are prepared to accept the peace process and that reunification will only come by consent.
 

eoghanacht

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As this is in the SF forum:
Although it is owned, run and modded by an large by ex PD/Libertas types.

As for what have they done, stop killing the Irish British in the north, you know the ones who's consent we'll need.

Small things like that.
 

Cruimh

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Why did the mods keep the NI thread and dump the SF one, specifically against my wishes. StringJack did it and Irish unification is about Ireland, not merely NI. Also, it raises questions of SF who are an active bunch on p.ie. Even put it in the UK forum ffs.

Thanks in advance for your explanation.
Why did you put the OP in the two fora? That was asking for trouble.
 

NMunsterman

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Is that really the best you can do to support your wishful thinking? :D

Thinking about it - yes, it probably is the best you could do ......
David Cameron is the British PM who is on record as saying that Polls are a complete waste of time.
Apparently, Margaret Thatcher was a fan of that series - partly on account of the fact that it so accurately portrayed how politics really works in Britain.
Not what you wish to believe of course - but that's an entirely different matter.
 

Cruimh

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David Cameron is the British PM who is on record as saying that Polls are a complete waste of time.
Apparently, Margaret Thatcher was a fan of that series - partly on account of the fact that it so accurately portrayed how politics really works in Britain.
Not what you wish to believe of course - but that's an entirely different matter.
You might be onto something but for the problem that the SF and SDLP turnout has been falling :D
 

NMunsterman

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You might be onto something but for the problem that the SF and SDLP turnout has been falling :D
That's why the only thing that counts is votes - and that's why unionists worked themselves into such a lather over the fact that they lost a democratic vote over the union flag in Belfast, their capital city.

It's a sign of the times - and they are a-changin' big time - and some people have huge difficulty trying to come to terms with that new reality.
 

theloner

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Why did you put the OP in the two fora? That was asking for trouble.
Was an accident, I originally put it in this one in error, then I reported my mistake asking it to be deleted as I intended to open the thread in the SF forum. Of course they did the exact opposite of what I had requested and deleted the SF one instead. You know, it's the posters that keep this place alive and the OP authors for the most part and a small favour is not only ignored but purposely rejected.
 

Cruimh

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Was an accident, I originally put it in this one in error, then I reported my mistake asking it to be deleted as I intended to open the thread in the SF forum. Of course they did the exact opposite of what I had requested and deleted the SF one instead. You know, it's the posters that keep this place alive and the OP authors for the most part and a small favour is not only ignored but purposely rejected.
I see - it is a good OP, though I dare say it would have ended up in the NI Forum once people started responding
 
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