Hasidic Jews of East Ramapo in New York state co-opt the local school system

Lumpy Talbot

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I'm Satnav Jewish. Any time I'm near a jewish delicatessen I'm in there.
 


GDPR

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It was a Reform synagogue. So reform it turned out to be roman cathoiic.
Indeed self-indulgent "Reform Judaism" with it's tendencies to indulgence and smug self-justification and deception has a lot in common with Maynooth "Catholicism". However the latter is for both better and worse a lot more effete and bland than the former.
 

GDPR

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The thread is about Jewish parents, not Muslims, you made that comparison. So if we're talking generally, about any religion wanting to use public funds to promote their own schools, then my point is valid.

If however you're discussing extremists promoting political as well as religious extremism, and possibly terrorism, then you're on the wrong thread.
Chabad has been linked to terrorism in occupied Palestine (and I'm talking about the stuff that the Zionist colonial project itself regards as illegal).
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Indeed self-indulgent "Reform Judaism" with it's tendencies to indulgence and smug self-justification and deception has a lot in common with Maynooth "Catholicism". However the latter is for both better and worse a lot more effete and bland than the former.
Catholicism is just an extreme version of Reform Judaism.
 

rainmaker

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That is a very communistic attitude IMO
Now that is plain ridiculous. My attitude is a very 21st century one.

Would you describe the likes of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins as communists, for instance?
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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The thread is about Jewish parents, not Muslims, you made that comparison. So if we're talking generally, about any religion wanting to use public funds to promote their own schools, then my point is valid.

If however you're discussing extremists promoting political as well as religious extremism, and possibly terrorism, then you're on the wrong thread.
Nope. I was merely pointing out a case where a particular faith tried to dominate a school district. I also said it was in the 'same vein'. You compared it to schools that already have a Catholic ethos. I say that its not at all comparable.
 

petaljam

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Nope. I was merely pointing out a case where a particular faith tried to dominate a school district. I also said it was in the 'same vein'. You compared it to schools that already have a Catholic ethos. I say that its not at all comparable.
I disagree. You're missing the point that in the US, religious schools don't get public funds to anything like the extent they do in both the UK and Ireland. The issue in the OP is all about money really, and the UK version of private "faith" schools already get that from their government. Thanks to Tony Blair, that well-known secularist. :roll:
 

GDPR

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Now that is plain ridiculous. My attitude is a very 21st century one.

Would you describe the likes of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins as communists, for instance?
Christopher Hitchens spent most of his life as a Trotskyite but disregarding that for a moment there is a rather pathetic 19 th century naïve quality to the works of both men on the subject of Religion and than we have the fact that Faith Schools have been increasing in numbers and attendance as the century has tumbled on rather than decreasing.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Christopher Hitchens spent most of his life as a Trotskyite but disregarding that for a moment there is a rather pathetic 19 th century naïve quality to the works of both men on the subject of Religion and than we have the fact that Faith Schools have been increasing in numbers and attendance as the century has tumbled on rather than decreasing.
And the number of 'Faith schools' under investigation by local authorities and police has increased accordingly.
 

Glenshane4

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Well, as I say, I don't believe there is any place for any religious control of any school in the 21st century and the state should intervene to end this.
I hope that you are not questioning the right of Jews to send their children to schools controlled by Jews or of Catholics to send their children to schools controlled by Catholics.
 

Glenshane4

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No religion should ever be allowed to control an education system in a civilised society, this needs to be stopped immediately.
Why? What could be wrong with a religion controlling the education system which it owns? What is uncivilised about Jews sending their children to schools controlled by Jews?
 

Glenshane4

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The thread is about Jewish parents, not Muslims, you made that comparison. So if we're talking generally, about any religion wanting to use public funds to promote their own schools, then my point is valid.
What could be wrong with a school, owned by a religious organisation, receiving payments from the taxpayers for services rendered? Are you insinuating that the State should spend less on the education of the child of Catholics than it spends on the education of the child of non-Catholics?
 

rainmaker

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Christopher Hitchens spent most of his life as a Trotskyite but disregarding that for a moment there is a rather pathetic 19 th century naïve quality to the works of both men on the subject of Religion and than we have the fact that Faith Schools have been increasing in numbers and attendance as the century has tumbled on rather than decreasing.
That has nothing to do with people becoming more religious, but to do with the schools being able to select the best pupils and thus increase their OFSTED ratings.

The fact is church attendance is down to record lows in the UK, through the floor in fact - and the fact that society is far more secular in general. Even the number of church weddings has fallen dramatically since you people have been able to choose wedding locations.

Only 1.4 per cent of the entire British population attends Anglican services on Sunday morning, in a rapid seven per cent drop in five years.

The Archbishop of Canterbury has claimed a change in social attitudes as the overall average attendance dropped by 22,000 to 764,700 in 2014.

And the 'weekly attendance' which shows the numbers of worshippers gathering for extra services between Monday and Saturday, has fallen below one million.
Church attendance drops to lowest rate EVER as UK faces

Weekly mass attendance has fallen by nearly a third (30.7%) between 1993 and 2010, as compared to corresponding falls of 10.9% in the Catholic population and 9.4% in the number of priests over the same period.

3.8 million persons identify as Catholics in England and Wales (8.3% of the adult population)
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/catholics-england-and-wales.html

Church influence has plummeted over the last hundred years & is now, thankfully, almost dead - barring the verifiable return of Christ it will never recover. Imagine the figures in another ten years?
 

rainmaker

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I hope that you are not questioning the right of Jews to send their children to schools controlled by Jews or of Catholics to send their children to schools controlled by Catholics.
Except that is not what I said. What I said was religious people cannot have control of the education system. They can't.

They don't get to decide where taxpayers resources go to because they imagine they have a divine right to do so from their particular god.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Well, as I say, I don't believe there is any place for any religious control of any school in the 21st century and the state should intervene to end this.
In the US the Separation of Church and State means that Faith-based schools are legal; but, by-and-large, it's illegal for the civil authority, such as local School Boards, to fund them.
 

The_SR

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Why? What could be wrong with a religion controlling the education system which it owns? What is uncivilised about Jews sending their children to schools controlled by Jews?
Do you not understand the topic in hand or did you not bother reading the article?
 

eoghanacht

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PeacefulViking

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The Hasidic Jews don't use the public school system so of course they are not going to show much interest in maintaining it. In fact, in this instance, the separation of church and state might work against the secular school system. Without separation of church and state they could potentially include their own religious schools in the system on equal conditions to other schools and they might have an interest to maintain it.

Imagine in Ireland, if Catholic schools could not be tax-funded. (Especially in the more pious past.) Do you really think you could convince the average voter that his taxes should be used to fund a secular school system in addition to what he paid to send his children to Catholic school? As it was, Protestant schools, Jewish schools, Educate Together and so on could be tax-funded because they received the same benefits as the Catholic ones, not a separate, better set of benefits.

I think it illustrates a real blind spot for those who claim secularism is religiously neutral. In practice, having a secular state is much easier if the population is secular, or failing that religiously diverse.
 


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