Hasidic Jews of East Ramapo in New York state co-opt the local school system



silverharp

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The Hasidic Jews don't use the public school system so of course they are not going to show much interest in maintaining it. In fact, in this instance, the separation of church and state might work against the secular school system. Without separation of church and state they could potentially include their own religious schools in the system on equal conditions to other schools and they might have an interest to maintain it.

Imagine in Ireland, if Catholic schools could not be tax-funded. (Especially in the more pious past.) Do you really think you could convince the average voter that his taxes should be used to fund a secular school system in addition to what he paid to send his children to Catholic school? As it was, Protestant schools, Jewish schools, Educate Together and so on could be tax-funded because they received the same benefits as the Catholic ones, not a separate, better set of benefits.

I think it illustrates a real blind spot for those who claim secularism is religiously neutral. In practice, having a secular state is much easier if the population is secular, or failing that religiously diverse.
it gets a bit awkward comparing the US to Ireland as they are simply different systems but standards are an issue, In Ireland you will basically get the same education regardless of who owns or runs the school, you wouldn't get funding off the Irish state to run a yasheeva anymore than you would get funding to run a clown school because their syllabus wouldn't be up to scratch
You cant really compare a catholic school to one of these yasheevas as they are not simply schools for kids that happen to be Jewish.
 

Wascurito

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With really really small bagels.
Going wildly off topic, a year I spent in Antwerp in the 1990s would have been a year of culinary boredom were it not for the plentiful supply of kosher food in the local supermarkets. I'm not Jewish but I am vegetarian and decent vegetarian food is (or at least was) hard to come by. For whatever reason, the kosher sections offered a huge range of foods based around lentils, chick peas, rice etc. and they were absolutely delicious. Alas, I've never come across the brand names since.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Going wildly off topic, a year I spent in Antwerp in the 1990s would have been a year of culinary boredom were it not for the plentiful supply of kosher food in the local supermarkets. I'm not Jewish but I am vegetarian and decent vegetarian food is (or at least was) hard to come by. For whatever reason, the kosher sections offered a huge range of foods based around lentils, chick peas, rice etc. and they were absolutely delicious. Alas, I've never come across the brand names since.
For some strange reason there was a very good chain of vegetarian restaurants in Mexico city years back. Quite cheap too in that you could get a fruit smoothie and a vegetable soup-of-the-day which was a very filling meal really cheap meal. All the backpackers that were sick of living on nachos and tortillas were thronging the place.

I couldn't look a black bean and mince in the face for years after travelling down the caribbean side of central America and back up the pacific side so the vegetarian chain was very welcome.

I've raided the kosher section of a supermarket myself on occasion just to try different things. I wonder are Grodzinskis still going in Belsize Park in London and Golders Green. Great cheese and pickle baguettes for lunch and very filling.
 

PO'Neill

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No religion should be controlling any school system in the 21st century - I hope this is not correct, I would like to see a link from a more respected source as well.
And no country in the 21st century should have a head of state that cannot be of a certain religion i.e. Catholic in Britain's case and reserves seats in it's parliament for another religion i.e. the Lords and the Church of England. And then this is the country who think they should lecture Ireland and the rest of the world about "it's sense of fairplay" :roll:
 

Mick Mac

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Well, as I say, I don't believe there is any place for any religious control of any school in the 21st century and the state should intervene to end this.
Yeah but they don't want to end up being called anti semitic so what state body will tackle it.

To run and run until it falls off the radar.
 
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And no country in the 21st century should have a head of state that cannot be of a certain religion i.e. Catholic in Britain's case and reserves seats in it's parliament for another religion i.e. the Lords and the Church of England. And then this is the country who think they should lecture Ireland and the rest of the world about "it's sense of fairplay" :roll:
Is that the fairplay that is helping the Saudi's destroy Yemen.
 

rainmaker

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case and reserves seats in it's parliament for another religion i.e. the Lords and the Church of England.
I agree. I am not happy that bishops of any religion are there & although they do not have any real power, their presence no longer represents the society that parliament does.

The Catholic thing is fairly obvious. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England - and having a Catholic head of the Church of England would be ridiculous if you think about it for a moment.

Do you think the Catholic Church should change to allow CoE bishops to be elected as Pope?
 

Karloff

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I agree. I am not happy that bishops of any religion are there & although they do not have any real power, their presence no longer represents the society that parliament does.

The Catholic thing is fairly obvious. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England - and having a Catholic head of the Church of England would be ridiculous if you think about it for a moment.

Do you think the Catholic Church should change to allow CoE bishops to be elected as Pope?
Head of State is a position of the state not the Church. The answer is for Britain to divide the two roles - make the Archbishop of Canterbury the head of the COE. Time to disestablish, Britain has only encouraged the madness among some loyalists up the North with this kind of atavistic stubbornness.
 

GDPR

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I agree. I am not happy that bishops of any religion are there & although they do not have any real power, their presence no longer represents the society that parliament does.

The Catholic thing is fairly obvious. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England - and having a Catholic head of the Church of England would be ridiculous if you think about it for a moment.

Do you think the Catholic Church should change to allow CoE bishops to be elected as Pope?
While under the Blair regime the powers of the House of Lords were significantly decreased to say that It doesn't have any real powers is fanciful.
 

rainmaker

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to say that It doesn't have any real powers is fanciful.
It doesn't. It cannot make legislation and nor can it prevent legislation being passed - the most it can hope to do is to slow down a bill. The reason for this is logical because it is unelected.

It is a revising chamber with the power to recommend amendments. Even then the number of bishops is only 25 out of 804 seats.
 

rainmaker

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Head of State is a position of the state not the Church. The answer is for Britain to divide the two roles - make the Archbishop of Canterbury the head of the COE.
Why? The Church of England was founded by the monarchy.To be honest I don't think enough people care to warrant change for change sake.
 

Karloff

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Why? The Church of England was founded by the monarchy.To be honest I don't think enough people care to warrant change for change sake.
And that sums up why a Catholic in the UK was always a second class citizen - the fact that you see the discrimination as a non issue. The problem lies in the attitudes of people like yourself and the vein of Protestant nationalism that underpins your identity and the identity of the UK itself (it was founded on the principles of Protestant Nationalism). Many European countries followed a similar trajectory but have moved on, Britain was proudly nesting the last location of the European wars of religion and wouldn't, still doesn't (fully).
 
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rainmaker

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And that sums up why a Catholic in the UK was always a second class citizen - the fact that you see the discrimination as a non issue. The problem lies in the attitudes of people like yourself and the vein of Protestant nationalism.
There is no sectarianism in England. We may have a lot of problems, but our society is not divided along catholic & protestant lines. In fact, the Christian churches are almost empty these days anyway.

Stop posting like a paranoid loon.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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The Hasidic Jews don't use the public school system so of course they are not going to show much interest in maintaining it.

In fact, in this instance, the separation of church and state might work against the secular school system.

Without separation of church and state they could potentially include their own religious schools in the system on equal conditions to other schools and they might have an interest to maintain it ...
No, the problem is much deeper than that.

In Hasidic (Haredi) communities the men are very reluctant to work; for a lot of them the group culture is for the men to study scripture all day in their Yeshivas.

They still need to support their families of course so generally they do that by 'business' - buying and selling, and similar - and ensuring they're obtaining their full entitlement to State Benefits.

So wherever they go, including Israel, they're not popular with the civil government or the general population - Israel cannot afford to keep paying ultra-Orthodox men to shun employment

Wheeling-and-dealing can sometimes lead into criminality, as can the maximisation of Welfare Benefits.


[video=youtube;CVF5DhB1R_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVF5DhB1R_w[/video]
 

PeacefulViking

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And that sums up why a Catholic in the UK was always a second class citizen - the fact that you see the discrimination as a non issue. The problem lies in the attitudes of people like yourself and the vein of Protestant nationalism that underpins your identity and the identity of the UK itself (it was founded on the principles of Protestant Nationalism). Many European countries followed a similar trajectory but have moved on, Britain was proudly nesting the last location of the European wars of religion and wouldn't, still doesn't (fully).
It is surely a bit excessive to call Roman Catholics second-class citizens just because they can not become the monarch. Is everyone except the Queen a second-class citizen?
 

PO'Neill

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I agree. I am not happy that bishops of any religion are there & although they do not have any real power, their presence no longer represents the society that parliament does.

The Catholic thing is fairly obvious. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England - and having a Catholic head of the Church of England would be ridiculous if you think about it for a moment.

Do you think the Catholic Church should change to allow CoE bishops to be elected as Pope?
Well glad you agree on what should be the role of churches and govt, but the Vatican state makes no bones about it that it is a ecclesiastical state while Britain pretends to be a modern democratic country.
 

Mick Mac

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Mick Mac

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No, the problem is much deeper than that.

In Hasidic (Haredi) communities the men are very reluctant to work; for a lot of them the group culture is for the men to study scripture all day in their Yeshivas.

They still need to support their families of course so generally they do that by 'business' - buying and selling, and similar - and ensuring they're obtaining their full entitlement to State Benefits.

So wherever they go, including Israel, they're not popular with the civil government or the general population - Israel cannot afford to keep paying ultra-Orthodox men to shun employment

Wheeling-and-dealing can sometimes lead into criminality, as can the maximisation of Welfare Benefits.


[video=youtube;CVF5DhB1R_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVF5DhB1R_w[/video]
Muslims don't work and only wheel and deal and claim benefits.
Except you changed the label.
Thanks for the jewophobia.
 


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