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Hatred for Fine Gael


Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
13
I want to hear from people who have a virulant hatred for FG, not just the ordinary antagonism from regular FFers. I think people in other parties actually hate FG more(well maybe not Labour/Greens).
The anti-FG brigade comes from a wide spectrum(leftwing, rightwing, republican and loyalist).
Bernadette McAliskey said that her daughter could have done worse than what she did in Germany. She could have voted for FG. Hatred for FG exceeds hatred for FF, despite that parties monoploy on power(the usual target). The hatred for FG is what unites posters like Cael and KeithM, posters that would never see eye to eye on anything else.
Who hates FG the most? Will FG ever overcome this innate hostility?
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
huntergatherer said:
I want to hear from people who have a virulant hatred for FG, not just the ordinary antagonism from regular FFers. I think people in other parties actually hate FG more(well maybe not Labour/Greens).
The anti-FG brigade comes from a wide spectrum(leftwing, rightwing, republican and loyalist).
Bernadette McAliskey said that her daughter could have done worse than what she did in Germany. She could have voted for FG. Hatred for FG exceeds hatred for FF, despite that parties monoploy on power(the usual target). The hatred for FG is what unites posters like Cael and KeithM, posters that would never see eye to eye on anything else.
Who hates FG the most? Will FG ever overcome this innate hostility?
We shouldn't really worry about antagonising people like McAliskey and Cael, and perhaps even KeithM.
There are 3-4% more of the population who are open to voting FG next time. We should worry about them, not end of spectrum nut-jobs.
30-31%? sound, and sod the rest.
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
Interesting question. I've never really thought why I loath FG. I only know one FG TD (Symour Crawford) in passing, and he's seems a genuine enough fella. I don't loath them about policy issues so much. Sure FF's are essentially the same, and I loath them equally. They seem to be a party of principal. IF the had sought SF TD votes, they might have been in government.

I suppose I loath them because they loath me. Their take on the troubles was that all Republicans (I mean every strand of Republicanism) was ill-informed or just downright stupid. FGer's have a superior attitude. They know best and, if you don't agree with them, you are ignorant. At the same time, I think so much of their rhetoric is ill-informed. I also get the impression, right or wrong, that if they could, they would impose bans, censorship and other draconian measure at the drop of hat on those who don't agree with them.
 

drbob1972

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
257
rockyracoon said:
Interesting question. I've never really thought why I loath FG. I only know one FG TD (Symour Crawford) in passing, and he's seems a genuine enough fella. I don't loath them about policy issues so much. Sure FF's are essentially the same, and I loath them equally. They seem to be a party of principal. IF the had sought SF TD votes, they might have been in government.

I suppose I loath them because they loath me. Their take on the troubles was that all Republicans (I mean every strand of Republicanism) was ill-informed or just downright stupid. FGer's have a superior attitude. They know best and, if you don't agree with them, you are ignorant. At the same time, I think so much of their rhetoric is ill-informed. I also get the impression, right or wrong, that if they could, they would impose bans, censorship and other draconian measure at the drop of hat on those who don't agree with them.
i think if you look around on this site alone that you'll find ppl of every political persuasion whom act like that

also i think its unfair to say FG loath Republicans, they may have loathed the actions of the republicans and not agreed with them that NI was the only item on the national agenda but loath ? no i think not
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
meriwether said:
We shouldn't really worry about antagonising people like McAliskey and Cael, and perhaps even KeithM.
There are 3-4% more of the population who are open to voting FG next time. We should worry about them, not end of spectrum nut-jobs.
30-31%? sound, and sod the rest.
Need one say more. Had I read this post, it would have saved me from writing the first one. FG can go rot in hell. I may detest FF but they get a preference vote. If FG can write off 7-8% of the population as nut jobs, fair play to them. May they stay in perpeutal opposition.
 

adamirer

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
454
I undertsand where you're coming from, but no real answer.

People hate SF because they see them as 'stepford politicians', clones endlessly repeating the party line, a line which changed dramatically during the election, shedding much of the very left wing economics (it just was discussed). That and the southern comments, the 35 years of killing etc.

FF are hated really only because Haughey/corruption and they've never really left the stink of that behind. Burke, Flynn x 2, Haughey, Lawlor, and then the incidents like McDaid, Wright, O'Keeffe going virtually unpunished.. the feeling that they lack morals except when it will cost them votes, and of course, the hatred that comes from being in power so long.

As for FG, like Labour, I find them an inoffensive party. Policy wise broadly similar to FF - they're both centrist parties, maybe slightly to the right but both generally pushed further to one direction when in Government. Hated maybe because when they are in FF are out. The blueshirt comments are just stupid - 75 years ago, get over it. No reflection on the party these days. I think the slightly 'holier than thou' attitude grates with some. The real difference, IMHO, between FF and FG is really the personalities and sense of rightiousness and little to do with policies.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
rockyracoon said:
meriwether said:
We shouldn't really worry about antagonising people like McAliskey and Cael, and perhaps even KeithM.
There are 3-4% more of the population who are open to voting FG next time. We should worry about them, not end of spectrum nut-jobs.
30-31%? sound, and sod the rest.
Need one say more. Had I read this post, it would have saved me from writing the first one. FG can go rot in hell. I may detest FF but they get a preference vote. If FG can write off 7-8% of the population as nut jobs, fair play to them. May they stay in perpeutal opposition.
Take it whatever way you want, but we have to look after our base, and then appeal to those 3-4% who could be persuaded to vote for us.
If this dose of realpolitik offends you, tough. McAliskey et al have their own political parties to look after them.
 

LowIQ

Active member
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
287
rockyracoon said:
Interesting question. I've never really thought why I loath FG. I only know one FG TD (Symour Crawford) in passing, and he's seems a genuine enough fella. I don't loath them about policy issues so much. Sure FF's are essentially the same, and I loath them equally. They seem to be a party of principal. IF the had sought SF TD votes, they might have been in government.

I suppose I loath them because they loath me. Their take on the troubles was that all Republicans (I mean every strand of Republicanism) was ill-informed or just downright stupid. FGer's have a superior attitude. They know best and, if you don't agree with them, you are ignorant. At the same time, I think so much of their rhetoric is ill-informed. I also get the impression, right or wrong, that if they could, they would impose bans, censorship and other draconian measure at the drop of hat on those who don't agree with them.
The thought of FG in power scares me. The PDs in power scared me -- and most of the electorate I might add. There is a fundamental difference between the way you cannot trust FF and the way you cannot trust FG. FF is merely crooked. FG is scary.
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
adamirer said:
I undertsand where you're coming from, but no real answer
I know what you are saying and analysis of the dislike factor of parties is spot on. However this was not a true or false question. This is why you "hate" a party. It is an emotive question. All I am tyring to do is flesh out why I loath FG.

As someone who lived through the troubles in a strongly nationalist area, I have some insight into the troubles. I have more empathy with the unionists and even loyalists than I do with FG. I know where the unionist polemics are coming from and I can often discount a good proportion of it according to circumstances. I have no empathy with FG. Anytime they open their mouths I just dislike them that little bit more.
 

Leopold Bloom

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
97
FF thinks everyone else hates them - they do!

SF thinks everyone else hates them - they do!

PDs ditto!

Labour is not hated but nor is it loved.

And the Greens are now aboout to find out what it's like to be really loathed PD style.
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
meriwether said:
Take it whatever way you want, but we have to look after our base, and then appeal to those 3-4% who could be persuaded to vote for us.
If this dose of realpolitik offends you, tough. McAliskey et al have their own political parties to look after them.
FF have out manouvered FG since the mid-90's. If this the prevailing attitude in your party, FF will continue to do so. The more you write the more I hope FF stay in government.
 

Oldira

Member
Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
41
I cant say I have any real hatred towards Fine Gael and actually gave my No 2 vote to a FG candidate mainly because I know him well. I do detest certain members though..Hayes,Bruton (John),Cooney, but there many decent politicians in Fine Gael although I disagree with them. Fianna Fail on the other hand I thoroughly despise.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
rockyracoon said:
meriwether said:
Take it whatever way you want, but we have to look after our base, and then appeal to those 3-4% who could be persuaded to vote for us.
If this dose of realpolitik offends you, tough. McAliskey et al have their own political parties to look after them.
FF have out manouvered FG since the mid-90's. If this the prevailing attitude in your party, FF will continue to do so. The more you write the more I hope FF stay in government.
I hope you dont fail to understand I care not a jot what you think.
You despise FG, why would I take on board anything you have to say as being constructive towards FG?
Im sorry that being realistic is so offensive these days.
Would you prefer me to say that the Republican vote is something FG are deeply sensitive to, and in our new caring Ireland of equals, we hope everyone will vote for us? Like that.
Every party seeks to maximise their vote, but will also have policies and platforms that just aren't acceptable to 100% of the electorate.
Our electorate is about 30-35%, of people who mighrt vote for us.
 

Munion

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
319
I don't hate FG, I just don't see a point in having them around.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
Munion said:
I don't hate FG, I just don't see a point in having them around.
The electorate disagree.
The electorate also have some pretty definite opinions on having the PD's around aswell.
 

thegeneral

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2004
Messages
156
Leopold Bloom said:
FF thinks everyone else hates them - they do!
Yes everyone does be it in the media, in the Oireachtas and on this site but not the electorate who are the crucial factor in this discussion something many in the media and the opposition generally have never come to terms with hence attacks you will hear labelling the electorate as stupid, near-illiterate, servile and peasant-like. Its happened since 1932 and doesn't seem to be changing.
 

jjcarroll

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
314
Website
www.semper-idem.eu
thegeneral said:
Leopold Bloom said:
FF thinks everyone else hates them - they do!
Yes everyone does be it in the media, in the Oireachtas and on this site but not the electorate who are the crucial factor in this discussion something many in the media and the opposition generally have never come to terms with hence attacks you will hear labelling the electorate as stupid, near-illiterate, servile and peasant-like. Its happened since 1932 and doesn't seem to be changing.

FF, forever claiming that the world is out to get them. Conveniently ignoring the fact that FF are in fact the establishment.
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
meriwether said:
I hope you dont fail to understand I care not a jot what you think.
You despise FG, why would I take on board anything you have to say as being constructive towards FG?
Im sorry that being realistic is so offensive these days.
Would you prefer me to say that the Republican vote is something FG are deeply sensitive to, and in our new caring Ireland of equals, we hope everyone will vote for us? Like that.
Every party seeks to maximise their vote, but will also have policies and platforms that just aren't acceptable to 100% of the electorate.
Our electorate is about 30-35%, of people who mighrt vote for us.
An interesting approach to politics.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
rockyracoon said:
meriwether said:
I hope you dont fail to understand I care not a jot what you think.
You despise FG, why would I take on board anything you have to say as being constructive towards FG?
Im sorry that being realistic is so offensive these days.
Would you prefer me to say that the Republican vote is something FG are deeply sensitive to, and in our new caring Ireland of equals, we hope everyone will vote for us? Like that.
Every party seeks to maximise their vote, but will also have policies and platforms that just aren't acceptable to 100% of the electorate.
Our electorate is about 30-35%, of people who mighrt vote for us.
An interesting approach to politics.
I think its realistic.
SF tailored their manifesto to perhaps 10% of the electorate. They would have been delighted with 10% surely?
FF tailor it to everyone, but they are so big, then can split into wings, such as right/left, and also pretend to be the opposition to the cabinet, especially backbench TD's in areas further away from Dublin.
 
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