Haven't we undermined marriage already?

Nudavongs

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Listening to some of the 'no' campaigners, it would be easy for an outsider to imagine that marriage is still a highly prized institution in this country - with young heterosexual couples eagerly waiting for their chance to become married and hence a proper and whole couple before they go forth and multiply.

Dear Ireland, wake up and smell the coffee. 40% of babies are being born outside of marriage. Young Irish couples are more interested in getting a house or apartment, a good job or a place in a good school for little Fiachra and Sadhbh. Marriage is WAY down the list - to be sorted out when all the other ducks are in already in a row.

I can see this being a repeat of the 1986 divorce referendum when a small minority (in that case, separated couples) had to carry the can for the vague misgivings of the majority. The threat to the sanctity of marriage comes from within the heterosexual community. Voting no on May 22nd won't suddenly make young people want to solemnise their relationship and go all legal and/or holy. No sirree.

Meanwhile, as a final mockery, iRadio has come up with a marriage competition. You can read the trite and silly details below. It suffices to say that the winner gets to choose her groom - on the wedding day itself.

» iRadio’s Three Strangers and a Wedding

I wonder when the men in pink robes and silly hats will issue a pastoral letter on this?
 


Bemafar

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No offense, Nudavongs, but do we really need another Marriage Referendum thread :confused:
 

Polybius

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Marriage has been completely undermined in Western society in many ways. It's not a good thing so many children are being born outside of wedlock. One of the reasons for the British riots of 2011 was that the family unit had completely collapsed in working class areas. Most of the rioters were raised by single mothers. The government need to do more to encourage parents to marry and raise children within a proper family unit. Allowing gay marriage will further undermine marriage.
 

Nudavongs

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No offense, Nudavongs, but do we really need another Marriage Referendum thread :confused:
Has this been addressed in a thread before? If not, then in this instance, yes.
 

Nudavongs

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Marriage has been completely undermined in Western society in many ways. It's not a good thing so many children are being born outside of wedlock. One of the reasons for the British riots of 2011 was that the family unit had completely collapsed in working class areas. The government need to do more to encourage parents to marry and raise children within a proper family unit. Allowing gay marriage will further undermine marriage.
Why?
 

Polybius

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Because marriage is about creating family units to raise children within. By allowing a man to marry another man, the state is saying marriage has absolutely nothing to do with children and procreation. Marriage should be uniquely between a man and a woman, Only a man and a woman can have natural sex together and procreate together. Allowing gay couples to marry seriously reduces the status of marriage in society.
 

EoinMag

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Marriage has been completely undermined in Western society in many ways. It's not a good thing so many children are being born outside of wedlock. One of the reasons for the British riots of 2011 was that the family unit had completely collapsed in working class areas. Most of the rioters were raised by single mothers. The government need to do more to encourage parents to marry and raise children within a proper family unit. Allowing gay marriage will further undermine marriage.
Nonsense it will, the riots are certainly dealing with the children of instable relationships or feckless fathers, but there is no way that allowing gay people to marry will accelerate this or exacerbate that situation. If anything allowing gay marriage will stabilise the situation for children currently of gay parents where there is no stable partner due to marriage not being an option.

Nothing about gay marriage would change the status of marriage as it currently stands for hetero people, nothing.
 

Analyzer

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I thought marriage got undermined when IBEC got into bed with ICTU, and pretended to not be in an ongoing relationship.
 

Nudavongs

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Because marriage is about creating family units to raise children within. By allowing a man to marry another man, the state is saying marriage has absolutely nothing to do with children and procreation. Marriage should be uniquely between a man and a woman, Only a man and a woman can have natural sex together and procreate together. Allowing gay couples to marry seriously reduces the status of marriage in society.
What country are you living in? I'm in Ireland where people are marrying and having no kids while others are having kids and not marrying. It's not the state that has broken that link - it's the people.

At the point of legal recognition, a marriage is a contract between two people. The State allows many privileges to married couples, even to those who have no children and have no plans to have any. Marriage is, not just about procreation. It’s about loving and being there for each other and it’s in the interests of the State to support such endeavours.

The gender of the couple doesn’t affect this. There is no reason why a same-gender couple shouldn’t receive the same supports and recognition from the state as a heterosexual couple. Their love for each other is the same, their desire to care for each other is the same and it’s entirely to the benefit of the state that they be accorded full equality before the law.
 

Polybius

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Nonsense it will, the riots are certainly dealing with the children of instable relationships or feckless fathers, but there is no way that allowing gay people to marry will accelerate this or exacerbate that situation. If anything allowing gay marriage will stabilise the situation for children currently of gay parents where there is no stable partner due to marriage not being an option.

Nothing about gay marriage would change the status of marriage as it currently stands for hetero people, nothing.
If marriage is deliberately devalued by the state so that it becomes nothing more than a token of affection between any two people then that undermines marriages. A good government would emphasise that marriage is essential for the responsible rearing of children by a mother and father. Unfortunately the gutless Irish establishment care more about being politically correct than being responsible.
 

Nudavongs

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Nonsense it will, the riots are certainly dealing with the children of instable relationships or feckless fathers, but there is no way that allowing gay people to marry will accelerate this or exacerbate that situation. If anything allowing gay marriage will stabilise the situation for children currently of gay parents where there is no stable partner due to marriage not being an option.

Nothing about gay marriage would change the status of marriage as it currently stands for hetero people, nothing.
Same sex couples have FAR fewer children outside of wedlock. We'd be GOOD for marriage, we'd set a new Gold Standard.
 

Nudavongs

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If marriage is deliberately devalued by the state so that it becomes nothing more than a token of affection between any two people then that undermines marriages. A good government would emphasise that marriage is essential for the responsible rearing of children by a mother and father. Unfortunately the gutless Irish establishment care more about being politically correct than being responsible.
So you're saying that it shouldn't be recognised as marriage until the first child is born?

Good luck with that.
 

daveL

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Because marriage is about creating family units to raise children within. By allowing a man to marry another man, the state is saying marriage has absolutely nothing to do with children and procreation. Marriage should be uniquely between a man and a woman, Only a man and a woman can have natural sex together and procreate together. Allowing gay couples to marry seriously reduces the status of marriage in society.
It might for you.

It won't for me or my wife.

We are all members of the same society.

As for the sole purpose of marriage being procreation... contemptible rubbish.
 

Polybius

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What country are you living in? I'm in Ireland where people are marrying and having no kids while others are having kids and not marrying. It's not the state that has broken that link - it's the people.

At the point of legal recognition, a marriage is a contract between two people. The State allows many privileges to married couples, even to those who have no children and have no plans to have any. Marriage is, not just about procreation. It’s about loving and being there for each other and it’s in the interests of the State to support such endeavours.

The gender of the couple doesn’t affect this. There is no reason why a same-gender couple shouldn’t receive the same supports and recognition from the state as a heterosexual couple. Their love for each other is the same, their desire to care for each other is the same and it’s entirely to the benefit of the state that they be accorded full equality before the law.
Of course the state has broken the link. The state has said to working class people that they do not need to form families for the purposes of economic stability and raising children. Instead the state tells the working class that they can have all the children they want outside wedlock and that the state will pay for these children of single parents.
 

Polybius

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It might for you.

It won't for me or my wife.

We are all members of the same society.

As for the sole purpose of marriage being procreation... contemptible rubbish.
If the referendum passes then your marriage will be downgraded to nothing more than a legal arrangement between any two people.
 

Nudavongs

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Of course the state has broken the link. The state has said to working class people that they do not need to form families for the purposes of economic stability and raising children. Instead the state tells the working class that they can have all the children they want outside wedlock and that the state will pay for these children of single parents.
Starve them into submission, eh?

Polybus, if two men/women getting married undermines your marriage, then maybe you or your Significant Other is gay?
 

'orebel

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Because marriage is about creating family units to raise children within. By allowing a man to marry another man, the state is saying marriage has absolutely nothing to do with children and procreation. Marriage should be uniquely between a man and a woman, Only a man and a woman can have natural sex together and procreate together. Allowing gay couples to marry seriously reduces the status of marriage in society.
Could you define that for me please, Ted?
 

gerhard dengler

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The State has sought to undermine marriage since 1995 and the Divorce Referendum.
Every single marriage in this state was undermined by the passing of that referendum.

The number of divorces in Ireland has increased by 150% since 2002

The 2015 Referendum is the next staging post in the undermining project.
 


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