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Head of Department of Finance: We have an "unnaturally low level of repossessions", things will change soon.


Sync

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Aug 27, 2009
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28,845
Head of Department of Finance: We have an "unnaturally low level of repossessions", things will change soon.

Eye opening stuff from John Moran yesterday, none of the couching that politicians engage, just hard reality.

1. Legislation is going to be passed to get around the Dunne judgement. Banks are going to be able to repossess houses as a last resort where there is no realistic possibility of repayment of the principle.

2. Large subsidising of mortgages seems to be ruled out: "It is not necessarily appropriate that banks should be using taxpayers' money to subsidise people living in accommodation, even if it is a family home, that is beyond their means."

3. On repossession rates in other countries: "Maybe we will move to those levels. We have had as serious a crisis as everybody else."

Now, The UK had 159000 borrowers in arrears in 2012, and in Q3 repossessed 8200. And that was their lowest quarter in 5 years.

We have 51353 residential mortgages in over 360 days arrears. If we were to head towards UK stats then, that's about 2500 homes being repossessed a quarter for us.

BBC News - Home repossessions drop to five-year low, lenders say



This is it guys. This is your warning. It's as clear as it possibly can be. If you look at your finances, look at your projected income of the next 10 years and look at your mortgage and can't see a way that you're going to be able to repay it, this is your warning that you need to start preparing to exit the contract.

Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath said while measures such as interest-only payments and lengthening mortgage terms would help some homeowners, others would need a complete mortgage restructuring.

Dead right. Every effort should be made by the bank to move to Interest only for a period of time (with no monetary gain for hte bank), lengthening terms should be offered. But there's a cut off point, and if you haven't been able to pay anything in over a year, your number's up.

The govt are being up front and honest with you. They are passing legislation to make easier to repossess your home. Hopefully your bank has been as well. Get to a solicitor, get to a financial advisor, see what can be rejigged, see where you stand. But the days of relying on a legal stalemate/reluctance of banks to action appear to be over.
 
L

longshortgrass

Here's how they do it in the good old USA, no messing about.

YearForeclosuresForeclosure FilingsHome Repossessions
2012 Year Projection2,300,0002,100,000700,000
2012 (Jan-Sept)1,616,4271,382,000572,844
20113,920,4183,580,0001,147,000
20103,843,5483,500,0001,125,000
20093,457,6432,920,000945,000
20083,019,4822,350,000679,000
20072,203,2951,260,000489,000
20061,215,304545,000268,532
 

Sync

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Aug 27, 2009
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28,845
There's only one question I would pose! Where will the evicted people go? That's a huge one.
Rents have been pretty much flat on houses since 2010. If you've bought in 2006-2008 at the peak of the bubble and are lumbered paying €2500 a month mortgage, then dropping to €900 a month rental is your option. I do agree the govt need to increase the amount of council housing as well if they go down the road of legislating for eviction.

In fact if I were SF/FF I would be pushing very hard in public that if the govt want to go down this evil, hardhearted route that they include in the same legislation a method to assist people in transition.
 

greengoose2

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Rents have been pretty much flat on houses since 2010. If you've bought in 2006-2008 at the peak of the bubble and are lumbered paying €2500 a month mortgage, then dropping to €900 a month rental is your option. I do agree the govt need to increase the amount of council housing as well if they go down the road of legislating for eviction.

In fact if I were SF/FF I would be pushing very hard in public that if the govt want to go down this evil, hardhearted route that they include in the same legislation a method to assist people in transition.
The trouble is that the evicted would be in negative equity and therefore still owe the banks. Many will be unemployed so there's little chance that they would not be a drain on society. They can't simply be thrown out on the street.

Will we see legislation for the transition? That would be the sensible route to take but I'm sure the incompetents will screw this thing up anyway!
 

Sync

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The trouble is that the evicted would be in negative equity and therefore still owe the banks. Many will be unemployed so there's little chance that they would not be a drain on society. They can't simply be thrown out on the street.
If you're going to do this you need to:
A: Make it easier for banks to repossess as a last resort where there's no chance of repayment
B: Make bankruptcy an easier process to get in and out of
C: Accept there will be people who can't pay back much of the negative equity and that you're going to take a hit. Get your estimates together and as firm figures as possible.
D: Legislate for the transition for those evicted.

Will we see legislation for the transition? That would be the sensible route to take but I'm sure the incompetents will screw this thing up anyway!
No, we'll see the first bit and then promises of the other stuff.
 

greengoose2

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May 30, 2009
Messages
25,444
If you're going to do this you need to:
A: Make it easier for banks to repossess as a last resort where there's no chance of repayment
B: Make bankruptcy an easier process to get in and out of
C: Accept there will be people who can't pay back much of the negative equity and that you're going to take a hit. Get your estimates together and as firm figures as possible.
D: Legislate for the transition for those evicted.



No, we'll see the first bit and then promises of the other stuff.
It would appear that the banks are running the country and that Dáil Éireann is merely the front office. There are potentially, thousands of evictions for people who were sucked into the Celtic Tiger's arse. These are the ones taking the hit while the banks are not. Is this really fair. If the bookie loses a fortune on some nag he pays out. It's not a one way traffic, no more that the boom was.
 

Crazy horse 6

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It would appear that the banks are running the country and that Dáil Éireann is merely the front office. There are potentially, thousands of evictions for people who were sucked into the Celtic Tiger's arse. These are the ones taking the hit while the banks are not. Is this really fair. If the bookie loses a fortune on some nag he pays out. It's not a one way traffic, no more that the boom was.
The fact that most of the bankers and the higher paid civil servents who caused this worsening economic disaster are still in the positions they where during the "boom" tells us all we need to know about this corrupt little nation of ours. And now those same people would have families out on the street homeless. B a s t a r d s is all they are hope they die screaming in pain the lot of them.
 

dizillusioned

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Jan 19, 2011
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Sync and Greengoose well done on this thread so far.

The deafening silence from the banks indicates to me that they are happy with the personal insolvency bill.

Having seen Noonan last night being "interviewed" much of what he said in relation to property increases (not that I believe him) will be wiped out with repossessions coming on the market.

Be that as it may, there is going to be a massive increase in costs to the state if repossessions are to be increased. I understand that the current position cannot be continued. However, legislation pushed through to bring tens of thousands of householders into homelessness will have a massive impact on social services.

While we can say what SHOULD be done in legislation to help people in transition, experience tells us that those who legislate in this country, rarely if ever get it right.

I am extremely annoyed that a senior civil servant should be bringing this information to the fore, surely with something of this importance to so many, it should be a minister. After all, no one in the Dept. of Finance had any act or part in the policies that lead to this situation arrising.
 

Burnout

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Oct 7, 2009
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7,275
Twitter
I have a life.
Old Ireland really is dead and gone, the amount of changes which have come about in the last few years since the CelticTiger Bertie Bonzanza and the takeover of Ireland by Europe has been slowly but surely dragging us into the 20th century.

All we need now is get rid of a few political parties and just have a front line group actually looking after the citizens of Ireland and working to have the best done with what we have in the coffers. No need for political civil war politics anymore, let us embrace reality.

Now is the time for the gombeen party members to leave with some dignity before been thrown out of their expensive offices and sent out into the real world.
 

RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
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Man with properties all over the world states Ireland has an unnaturally low level of repossessions.
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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The fact that most of the bankers and the higher paid civil servents who caused this worsening economic disaster are still in the positions they where during the "boom" tells us all we need to know about this corrupt little nation of ours. And now those same people would have families out on the street homeless. B a s t a r d s is all they are hope they die screaming in pain the lot of them.
The top brass in the DOF have been removed. Someone referenced the US above. Well the government could have changed the constitution to allow people who have property based loans to hand over the keys to the bank and walk away debt free as they do in the US. That would force the banks to engage as they don't want a stock of houses and property they can't sell. I would have to agree with Shane Ross that the PIB seems to be a crock where the banks have the whip hand.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Jan 17, 2011
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50,459
Eye opening stuff from John Moran yesterday,
none of the couching that politicians engage, just hard reality.

1. Legislation is going to be passed to get around the Dunne judgement. Banks are going to be able to repossess houses as a last resort where there is no realistic possibility of repayment of the principle.

2. Large subsidising of mortgages seems to be ruled out: "It is not necessarily appropriate that banks should be using taxpayers' money to subsidise people living in accommodation, even if it is a family home, that is beyond their means."

3. On repossession rates in other countries: "Maybe we will move to those levels. We have had as serious a crisis as everybody else."

Now, The UK had 159000 borrowers in arrears in 2012, and in Q3 repossessed 8200. And that was their lowest quarter in 5 years.

We have 51353 residential mortgages in over 360 days arrears. If we were to head towards UK stats then, that's about 2500 homes being repossessed a quarter for us.

BBC News - Home repossessions drop to five-year low, lenders say



This is it guys. This is your warning. It's as clear as it possibly can be. If you look at your finances, look at your projected income of the next 10 years and look at your mortgage and can't see a way that you're going to be able to repay it, this is your warning that you need to start preparing to exit the contract.




Dead right. Every effort should be made by the bank to move to Interest only for a period of time (with no monetary gain for hte bank), lengthening terms should be offered. But there's a cut off point, and if you haven't been able to pay anything in over a year, your number's up.

The govt are being up front and honest with you. They are passing legislation to make easier to repossess your home. Hopefully your bank has been as well. Get to a solicitor, get to a financial advisor, see what can be rejigged, see where you stand. But the days of relying on a legal stalemate/reluctance of banks to action appear to be over.
Sync, strange choice of language to say people have been relying on legal stalemate/reluctance of banks. Many of us have been pleading with banks to face reality.

This legal stalemate has suited banks as it has given them time to rebuild, while avoiding jingle mail and all the while getting money from people via interest -only arrangements. People who they may now foreclose on.

Also, to posters comparing possession rates to UK and US:

UK has very favourable bankruptcy rules, so it's not as big a deal; and

In the US loans, are non-recourse, so it's not a big deal.
 
Last edited:

Telemachus

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Apr 8, 2004
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en.wikipedia.org


There were only 134 reposessions in Q4 2012. 23,500 are in arrears by 720 days or more.

This is getting to be a joke. It is time for some reality to dawn on the scoop-monkeys.
 

wishywashy

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Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
2,616
Eye opening stuff from John Moran yesterday, none of the couching that politicians engage, just hard reality.

1. Legislation is going to be passed to get around the Dunne judgement. Banks are going to be able to repossess houses as a last resort where there is no realistic possibility of repayment of the principle.

2. Large subsidising of mortgages seems to be ruled out: "It is not necessarily appropriate that banks should be using taxpayers' money to subsidise people living in accommodation, even if it is a family home, that is beyond their means."

3. On repossession rates in other countries: "Maybe we will move to those levels. We have had as serious a crisis as everybody else."

Now, The UK had 159000 borrowers in arrears in 2012, and in Q3 repossessed 8200. And that was their lowest quarter in 5 years.

We have 51353 residential mortgages in over 360 days arrears. If we were to head towards UK stats then, that's about 2500 homes being repossessed a quarter for us.

BBC News - Home repossessions drop to five-year low, lenders say



This is it guys. This is your warning. It's as clear as it possibly can be. If you look at your finances, look at your projected income of the next 10 years and look at your mortgage and can't see a way that you're going to be able to repay it, this is your warning that you need to start preparing to exit the contract.




Dead right. Every effort should be made by the bank to move to Interest only for a period of time (with no monetary gain for hte bank), lengthening terms should be offered. But there's a cut off point, and if you haven't been able to pay anything in over a year, your number's up.

The govt are being up front and honest with you. They are passing legislation to make easier to repossess your home. Hopefully your bank has been as well. Get to a solicitor, get to a financial advisor, see what can be rejigged, see where you stand. But the days of relying on a legal stalemate/reluctance of banks to action appear to be over.



The govt are being upfront and honest with you. Another poor deluded soul. The govt has been neither upfront nor honest since the day it assumed office. Even the Bullfrog Rabbitte doesnt deny that.
 

Astral Peaks

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Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
25,986
Eye opening stuff from John Moran yesterday, none of the couching that politicians engage, just hard reality.

1. Legislation is going to be passed to get around the Dunne judgement. Banks are going to be able to repossess houses as a last resort where there is no realistic possibility of repayment of the principle.

2. Large subsidising of mortgages seems to be ruled out: "It is not necessarily appropriate that banks should be using taxpayers' money to subsidise people living in accommodation, even if it is a family home, that is beyond their means."

3. On repossession rates in other countries: "Maybe we will move to those levels. We have had as serious a crisis as everybody else."

Now, The UK had 159000 borrowers in arrears in 2012, and in Q3 repossessed 8200. And that was their lowest quarter in 5 years.

We have 51353 residential mortgages in over 360 days arrears. If we were to head towards UK stats then, that's about 2500 homes being repossessed a quarter for us.

BBC News - Home repossessions drop to five-year low, lenders say



This is it guys. This is your warning. It's as clear as it possibly can be. If you look at your finances, look at your projected income of the next 10 years and look at your mortgage and can't see a way that you're going to be able to repay it, this is your warning that you need to start preparing to exit the contract.




Dead right. Every effort should be made by the bank to move to Interest only for a period of time (with no monetary gain for hte bank), lengthening terms should be offered. But there's a cut off point, and if you haven't been able to pay anything in over a year, your number's up.

The govt are being up front and honest with you. They are passing legislation to make easier to repossess your home. Hopefully your bank has been as well. Get to a solicitor, get to a financial advisor, see what can be rejigged, see where you stand. But the days of relying on a legal stalemate/reluctance of banks to action appear to be over.
Heard him on MI, was moderate but firm, said the same stuff though.

Did anybody hear Vincent Martin from New Beginnings? Shambolic incoherence mixed with greedy self entitlement.
 

Dame_Enda

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Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,042
What is a necessary evil?
Repossession. The taxpayer has to recover its bailout money somehow. First to be taken should be properties of fatcats with multiple homes. Remember the elderly couple in the news ages ago who lost one home and then it emerged they had 32 more!
 
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