Henry Kissinger: "2009 will mark the beginning of a new world order."

Oreo Livermore

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A lot on the right woke up while Bush was in. Some of these have been swept away by the phoney teabaggers lead by Palin and Beck. However there is still a lot of teabaggers who follow the likes of Sherriff Mack. The Sherrif is the highest law man in the county, above the feds and everybody else

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRfkXK13KM"]YouTube- Sheriff Mack - Leader - Sheriff's Begin Revolt Against Federal Authority[/nomedia]




Now it is time for the left to take some medicine. Some will join the constitutionalists. They are growing in strenght imo


As a matter of fact some like Rand Paul if he becomes a senator in Nov might join the Constitution Part
 


HaHa_U_Fools

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A lot on the right woke up while Bush was in.

I can’t argue as many Truthers are more of the US right including Paleoconservatives and /or Libertarians but one needs to be wary of going by election results as evidence since the evidence would indicate that there hasn’t been a fair and open election since the introduction of electronic voting.


As a matter of fact some like Rand Paul if he becomes a senator in Nov might join the Constitution Part
Ron Paul is not to be trusted. If all the gold, including that that was once held at Fort Knox, is now in the hands of these conspirators then who would gain from his ideas about returning to the gold standard but they themselves?
 
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Oreo Livermore

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I can’t argue as many Truthers are more of the US right including Paleoconservatives and /or Libertarians but one needs to be wary of going by election results as evidence since the evidence would indicate that there hasn’t been a fair and open election since the introduction of electronic voting.




Ron Paul is not to be trusted. If all the gold, including that that was once held at Fort Knox, is now in the hands of these conspirators then who would gain from his ideas about returning to the gold standard but they themselves?


Too true. The only elections that can be trusted are the primary caucus states where everyone must stand up and be counted. Elsewhere there is differing methods even within each state. In the Texas primary recently only 1% of the electorate was subject to precinct handcount. Elsewhere was differing methods, some with paper trail some without.

As regards Paul, I trust him. He is exactly the same as he was 30 years ago except that he changed his view on capital punishment.

His position(and the position held by every single member of the separate Constitution Party) is what the Constitution says. The opinions of all these people never changes.


I have written a lot about gold on my own page.

2 significant recent events.

Gordan Brown has been ordered to divulge the details of the gold sales within 35 days and


Bloomberg won the court case demanding that The Federal Reserve tell Senator Sander, and every one else, who got the 2.2 trillion of Quantative Easing.


A long story if anybody is interested.

A Golden High - Real Irish Politics Forums



You are exactly right about the ownership.

If the bankers bought the gold, rightfully the property of the British citizens, for peanuts, then

our goose is cooked
 

scolairebocht

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I am hopelessly lazy about replying to comments but I have eventually got around to it!

Thranduil
Definitely I should have added U2, no question. In fact I think the music industry in general is big into this with all that symbolism that has been pointed out on other threads and at: The Vigilant Citizen .
I must say though I don't think there is any possibility of this stuff turning out good at all. I think if you read all the survivors accounts, where they describe routine use of torture etc, you would wish to oppose this kind of thing all along the line.

Mouroux
"The first page of this thread is excellent" and then the poor fella lost the plot altogether!lol. Only messing :), many thanks for your kind comments anyways!

martino
"scolairebocht-very good thread, but I have a few questions. You've practically named everybody of note in Irish society; is there anybody outside this nexus, any good guys left? For instance, you mention Ganley as being in on it, but he opposed Lisbon II. Even Jim Corr, I thought he was against NWO.
Many thanks and well I think a lot of your normal Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael backbenchers are honest and not corrupt, but unfortunately not very active in opposing the important stuff that's going on either! Say John Deasy, Bernard Durkan, and Ned O'Keefe for example. For instance the latter sometimes seems to think things through a bit but then recently he said that he has given a pledge to Fianna Fáil and that's that, so he just votes for them in the Dail no matter what. Well I think that means that he is useless in opposing what's going on because unquestionably the overall thrust of what Fianna Fáil has been up to over the last few years has fitted in with above mentioned agenda, whether they realise that or not. There are very few genuine honest people imho who are also courageous in opposing the goings on all along the line but maybe if I could name a few I would list three ex MEPs: Patricia McKenna, Kathy Sinnott, and, in England, Ashley Mote. I think there is more hope too in the humble foot soldiers that opposed Lisbon II in the likes of Cóir and the People's Movement, but unfortunately it would be naive to think that Ganley was the only one who infiltrated that side!
As regards the media I would only say that sometimes the Irish Daily Mail seems to break through the usual control - and only sometimes! -, and the Alive! newspaper, and I guess a few small local ones like the Meath Weekender in Meath. But again no doubt there are lots of honest journalists too who just don't see how much they are pawns in the game by not standing up for the people rather than pumping out information that they get from official sources.

How about countries-are there any countries not in on the scam, China, Japan, Iran,and the Muslim world in general?"
For me I would actually guess that the depressing answer is no, but I guess there are some honest politicians everywhere e.g. notice the courageous way that President Olafur R. Grimsson of Iceland blocked that country's ruinous bailout law. He is quoted here commenting on Ireland as well:
"Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, the president of Iceland, remarked to Simon Carswell of the Irish Times, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, last month that the Irish people might be interested in how the devaluation of Iceland’s currency has made the export sector “much more profitable in a matter of weeks.”"
I think sometime in the future we are going to get a big war between the Muslim world and the EU but no doubt it will be the usual racket with the powers that be controlling both sides.

"And finally, how closely are internet communications monitored by agents of NWO? "
Ok this is my long winded, patented, for tuppence worth :), explanation of why the powers sponsored and promoted the internet in the beginning:
a) I actually think that at some level this was an Occult motivation. What they wanted to do was have a worldwide mechanism whereby all commerce could be conducted by numbers so that they could attempt to fulfil the requirements in the Bible that the Antichrist will get everybody to trade under his numbers - meaning that it would be all done by credit cards and barcodes etc. Btw I am only talking about what they think, you can feel that this is mad if you like but that's how this group's mind works! Anyway you need a worldwide IT structure for that so hence the net which they at first called the 'Information Super Highway' and which was pushed by people like Al Gore who is said to be very into the Occult. You can see some traces of this policy still in the way that they try to push a laptop for every child and for every citizen in places like Africa where they don't have them already.

b) Also they wanted a general framework whereby the citizens would lose faith in their govts, and hence drain countries of their nationalistic fervour - always one of their aims -, so the idea was that very heavy criticism of national politicians etc would circulate on the net away from the usual control mechanisms of the established media.
Ok I know I of all people could hardly say that that is their Occult and terrible agenda but bear with me for a minute. You see the overall strategy they often adopt is that they use the truth as a weapon, what they actually do is that they 'create' the truth. So they infiltrate national govts and run them into the ground then they create a forum where people can get vexed about this and hopefully lose faith in their own country and then nationality and race. So in fact originally these globalist gangsters liked the idea of a forum where these kind of things, even when they are the truth, could get aired.

c) Also they hoped to shape the news agenda to their liking by employing a vast number of 'trolls' to shape the conversation - or just wreck it - on the web fora. Its quite possible that about 50% or more of the commentators of a web forum can be trolls and they thought that the heavy use of anonymity on the web would facilitate this.

c) They wanted to create an international social network so that it would be just as easy and cheap to talk to a person everyday from Singapore as to chat to the person across the street and by these means hopefully create a global sense of community and a corresponding fall off in a local sense of community. That obviously matches with the NWO agenda especially if it leads to many cross border marriages etc.

d) Of course the whole thing had enormous surveillance capability built into it from the first which again is helpful from their point of view.

e) Maybe they wanted it too to assist their own operations like child pornography and even maybe drug dealing and networking etc.

Of course all this has backfired somewhat now because it is often the globalists themselves that are getting the flak on the web. Also what is really happening is that some people at least are becoming educated somewhat as to the agenda and practices of both the powers that be and the usual tactics of the trolls. Some people can see these trolls coming a mile off now and are immune to their 'charms'! So now its not working well at all, certainly these groups do not like the internet at all now.

In fact they are scrambling around now trying to figure out what to do. You can see this in some web forums for example. On the one hand they hate any real discussion now on the web and they especially dislike a sense of community forming among the members. (How you would stop a sense of community developing might be to: crack down on too much good humoured joking; set up systems to encourage informing on posters to the owners of the forum; set up grading systems that might encourage jealousy; try to get the users involved in publicly shaming some of their community; set up systems, tags or logos maybe, so that each user is immediately bracketed into a particular box in the left/right or Republican/Fine Gael split which might keep honest people apart etc etc. Btw if you follow some of the posts there you can see that some of the most important people running boards.ie and indymedia.ie are clearly into the Occult.) But if they just closed some of these sites then some less corrupt people could form new ones outside their control and that would be worse from the point of view of the powers that be than the current at least semi-controlled set up. So their only solution is to oscillate it continuously! What happens is that if a forum becomes very popular, and again the honest contributors look like forming a sense of community, then it is closed on some excuse. Then a 'controlled opposition' type web forum is drawn up (they always set up a controlled opposition for any step they take and btw I definitely do not mean Youngdan's site I hasten to add!) and then if it looks like the users will go elsewhere the original one comes back until it gets too popular again and it closes anew etc. You see its the only way you can do it if you actually want to close down discussion but cannot afford to have an uncontrolled forum setup!
Anyway the point is that these groups are by no means omnipotent, they really are getting a bit desperate as regards some of the info on the net.

rhonda15
You and Almanac have posted piles of good stuff and videos and I watch nearly them all. Always worth viewing, I hope you keep up the good work!

new start
YouTube- Doc Marquis---Arrival of the Antichrist part 12
if you listen to part twelve he describes exactly what is happening in ireland at this moment in relation to getting control of property..

True and in fact nearly all of these ex-cult defectors talk about the plans that were laid for an economic crash e.g. Svali as quoted here: savethemales.ca - Illuminati Defector Details Pervasive Conspiracy .
Probably the most detailed description of this was provided by John Todd when he said that the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand was a bit of a leak of Illuminati plans (apparently because she was a mistress of one of the Rockefellers). Anyway its an enormous book and mostly incredibly boring :) but there are a few intriguing bits in it alright. Maybe the following parts are worth mulling over:
a) At one point one of the bad guys states that the govts concept is to have huge all encompassing laws which in practice nobody could avoid breaking at some point in their lives. Then they would use their surveillance networks to find out when an important person broke those laws and use it to blackmail or destroy them.
b) It seems the basic economic crash described was deflationary, because one of the characters talks about how things were so cheap then in comparison to before.
c) The general narrative is that the economy crashes, the govt and some businessmen react by bringing in laws that control and regulate industry to 'stabilise the situation' but which actually destroy the normal competitiveness and functioning of the economy. So the whole thing just gets worse and worse until it completely collapses and then a mysterious group of senior people come back and it seems introduce a dictatorship under their rule.
d) This mysterious clique actually hide out in a ranch in the Rockys, owned by a banker, until the time comes for them to takeover. Incidentally if you watch that video by George Washington Hunt you can see him talking about a huge ranch in the Rockys that was bought by Maurice Strong, a very powerful Canadian UN and business oligarch.
e) They talk a lot about the secret discoveries of Tesla including a device to harness energy freely from the air and the book also talks about a kind of giant ray or laser gun. Incidentally if you watch this video by Bill Schnoebelen he says that Tesla was popular in the Illuminati and he goes on to speculate about the existence of the latter type of weapon: Secret Weapons: Scalar Wave Weaponry. 2:43:39 Video .
That's about it anyway but its certainly worth thinking about!

Haha U Fools
"One can get a bit suspicious of truth tellers who talk as if the NWO is a fait accompli . They may be in the ‘endgame’ but it doesn't mean they have all in the bag either. Technology has helped to break some of their almost total control on information dissemination and that can't be good for them. There are more and more becoming aware ever day around the world."
Absolutely nothing is for certain but I don't know can the Americans stop the juggernaut coming their way this time? I think we are going to enter 'interesting times' no matter what?
The way I see it it is a kind of a race: the awareness of the general public is increasing enormously, and I agree with Oreo and yourself that people are beginning to see that the left/right and Democrat/Republican thing is a bit of a racket cos they control both sides; but at the same time the degree of control that the powers that be are getting over society is also increasing exponentially? Even in Britain the first non jury trial in hundreds of years was held a few days ago. The worry is that the people will only wake up to this thing when the prison camps etc are set up, and maybe when they will have abolished the sovereignty - even existence - of national parliaments? In otherwords when it might be too late?

Oreo Livermore
Many many thanks for all your compliments and stuff!
You know speaking for myself I cannot hope to second guess exactly what is going to happen with the currencies and gold thing. I think the overall long term plan might be:
(a) the destruction of all the fiat currencies;
(b) then a gold or silver standard;
(c) then a new type of electronic currency, like a kind of giant global credit card system where the bank balances and currencies would be reconciled on some all powerful international computer database.

I think the powers that be would prefer the last step to just a gold standard because then they could have massive control and surveillance over people.
But when anyway could it happen? Well I think you could make a case for the fall of each of the three currencies: the euro, the dollar, and sterling, based on the huge overhang of debts especially post bailouts etc. But which first? Well as I see it, at the end of the day, the decision is likely to be more political than economic because there are always strings being pulled behind the scenes in this field all the time. So what would be the best as part of a political agenda? Well how about if they crashed sterling while the euro was still standing, that could be sold then as a humiliation for the stand alone 'little Englander' types, which might fit the agenda? Just speculating anyways but I totally agree anyway that in time the euro is for the chop just like all the others.

Don't forget too that this whole deflation cycle could continue for some time. This is because it is said that all along the plan of the powers that be was to crush people with large debts - see for example what Svali said -, and for that deflation is the weapon of choice because if the currencies go down then you would have hyper inflation which would wipe out the debts and so rescue people that are slated for the chop? Maybe for a long time we will just get more of the same, a vicious deflation cycle wiping out businesses and families and massively increased regulation, taxation and state control which will make businesses uneconomic and further increase the economic turmoil. This will then cause the people to cry out against private ownership and enterprise and give public backing for a kind of communist system where the powers that be can really turn the screw on any dissidents etc.


A few more links
Susan Ford, using the pseudonym Brice Taylor, was from an Illuminati family as she relates in her book Thanks for the Memories: whatsup?: Susan Ford (Brice Taylor) . She was 'programmed' as a sex slave among the elite as she describes on camera in this lecture: Brice Taylor Exposes Mind Control In The US and in an 1998 interview with Ted Gunderson: http://www.youtube.com/v/G_c7JTADT_k .
Mike Warnke - who elsewhere identifies the group he was in as the Illuminati - gives a funny but poignant lecture at mike warnke live at 01:55am PST on 02/27/2010, Recorded on my iPhone stubbyd on USTREAM. , and was also interviewed on the 20/20 TV show broadcast on ABC in October 1985: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwMM1TypkeI"]YouTube- 20/20 Satanism Its origins[/nomedia] . His lecture doesn't go into any detail at all as to his Illuminati involvement but he had written all about it in his book "The Satan Seller" (Plainfield New Jersey, 1972): Amazon.com: The Satan Seller (9780882700960): Mike Warnke: Books .
He stated in 1993 that when he submitted the original manuscript to the publishers it was decided that it would be slightly changed "by myself and the editors in a conscious attempt by us to protect people that could have been hurt and to keep the book from being used as a 'how to' reference for those seeking ways to get involved in Satanism." But in any case he stands by its accuracy and asserts that nothing should cloud "the facts from being the facts" ( http://mikewarnke.org/PDF/Tribunalhearing.pdf ).
Mrs Edna Elaine Moses née Knost, as well as her friend and co-author of two books Dr Rebecca Brown, was interviewed in profile, as 'Elaine', by Geraldo Rivera on the Geraldo show entitled "Satanic Cults and Children", broadcast on ABC on the 19th of November 1987. You can read an extract from one of the above books, He Came To Set the Captives Free, here where she describes the coven she was in and its links to the Illuminati: Occult Rituals and the "Alien" Presence .
David Marr, has given his life story in some detail here: My Testimony . He states that he is a member of an Illuminati family, an unacknowledged member of the Orange royal family of the Netherlands. The amazing thing about this case is that he also uses a public persona known as Anthony de Mare, a well known concert pianist that you can see in concert here if you like: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnUp_CRrBkY"]YouTube- Anthony de Mare performing "Missing Peace"[/nomedia] . He states that his brilliance as a musician is down to the 'programming' he received.
Roger Morneau described in considerable detail how he joined this group - it is obviously this organisation although he doesn't use the name 'Illuminati' - in Montreal in 1946: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JddMY7KKVGI"]YouTube- Interview with an Ex Satanic Elite p1 of 20[/nomedia] .
Giulio Tremonti, the Minister of Economy and Finance in the Italian government, has recently talked about the modern Illuminati in a number of interviews e.g.: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olkU_dSjNU0"]YouTube- Illuminati (english version)[/nomedia] and [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUSfFl62y_E"]YouTube- ILLUMINATI : Tremonti Confessa la Massoneria[/nomedia] . He clearly must know about this cult from the inside because he is a member of the usual organisations, Bildergers, Aspen Institute etc.

These three interviews are by people who claim to be current members of the Illuminati:
'Druwydion Pendragon' of Georgia in the USA interviewed at:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tXtPTQFpdU"]YouTube- voicefromshadows01.mp4[/nomedia] .
Gabriel Lopez de Rojas, of Barcelona, who obviously did not found the Illuminati but is nonetheless listed as a senior member of the OTO, an allied organisation: Dailymotion - Gabriel Lopez de Rojas GrandMaster of the Illuminati Order - a News & Politics video .
Interview with an anonymous member on OccultoTV: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwDeryGqFIM"]YouTube- An Interview with The Illuminati[/nomedia] .

A couple of interesting miscellaneous links:
The Illuminati on facebook by Steve Wesley Thomas of Cornwall: The Truth Seeker - Tracking the Illuminati on Facebook , and the follow up story is at: savethemales.ca - Tracking the Bilderbergers in Facebook .
The cards from the Illuminati board game released in 1995: Illuminati NWO card game - Windows Live . Some people think that the author of this game had some inside knowledge into this cult because it came out long before 9/11 yet contains images that seem to predict the Twin Towers and Pentagon attacks. If you are trying to follow the meaning of these cards bear in mind that this cult is supposed to control all political movements (e.g. environmental ones, protest or 'weird' ones, conservative and liberal movements etc) and, in the game at any rate, uses various tricks to boost these organisations or combine these groups for various 'goals'. Obviously even if there is something non fictional about these cards they nonetheless contain plenty of lies and misdirections. For example, as regards a sly misdirection, look at the Dentists card here: dentists.png - Windows Live . What have dentists to do with anything? lol:). Ah but notice the text underneath:
"'You're not doing anything this week. Senator. Those wisdom teeth have to come out right now.'
By using their own action, the Dentists can cancel the Action(s) of any Personality."
If you read that book by Svali you would know that she says that nearly all the Illuminati figures go for regular 'tune ups' to these mind 'programmers' to, in some cases, polish up the artificial 'personalities' that are encoded in them and in general to keep their independence of mind, as it were, in check. She also says that this is done by using general medical equipment, e.g. drugs and particularly high backed chairs with arm restraints. Just like in the card picture? And this seems to be alluded to in the text? Just speculating I guess...
 
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scolairebocht

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Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
905
Addendum

Forgot to add this writer under researchers into the Illuminati:
Piers Compton, was for 14 years the Literary editor of the Catholic newspaper called The Universe. An old tape recording of an interview with him was broadcast on the 6th of December 2008 on BBC Radio 4's Archive Hour in a programme called The King and Dr Cannon where Compton says that King Edward VIII was influenced by "the leader of black magic in England". You can read some more about him from the dustjacket of his 1974 book on General Gordon:
"Piers Compton's first book was published before he was twenty. Since then he has spent his life writing, but he has interspersed this with a remarkable number of sidelines.

He was a copywriter and "ideas man" for American humour strips and films; was a "ghost writer" for eminent medical specialists; he spent five years on the stage in London and the provinces, and acted in the last of the silent films.

After becoming a Catholic he tried his vocation at monasteries in England and France; he was a political propagandist for different Parties in turn (and says, as a result, "wild horses would never drag me to a polling booth."); he soldiered abroad in anti-Communist causes. For several years he was Literary Editor of the Catholic weekly 'The Universe'.

His biographical studies, in which the military element has been marked, have always aimed at presenting popular but authentic historical reconstruction. He is at present working on a book dealing with Victorian social life.

Piers Compton is married, has a son Blaise and a young daughter Venetia, and lives at Marlow, Bucks."
In any case he wrote a book outlining what he felt was the whole story of the Illuminati takeover of the Vatican, based presumably on information known to the Catholic journalists in Rome. You can read the whole book online at this site: The Broken Cross and here is a quote from it:
"It was during the pontificate of Pius XII that a number of priests then working in the Vatican became aware that all was not well beneath the surface. For a strange kind of influence not to their liking was making itself felt, and this they traced to a group who had come into prominence as experts, advisers, and specialists, who surrounded the Pope so closely that he was spoken of, half humorously, as being their prisoner.

But those priests who were more seriously concerned set up a chain of investigation, both here and in America, where their spokesman was Father Eustace Eilers, a member of the Passionist Congregation of Birmingham, Alabama. This led to establishing the fact that the Illuminati were making themselves felt in Rome, by means of specially trained infiltrators who came from near the place in Germany where Adam Weishaupt had boasted of his plan to reduce the Vatican to a hollow shell. That the hand of the Illuminati was certainly involved became clearer when Fr. Eilers, who announced that he was publishing those facts, was suddenly found dead, presumably one of those sudden heart attacks that, when dealing with secret societies, so often precede promised revelations."
 

Oreo Livermore

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
734
You know speaking for myself I cannot hope to second guess exactly what is going to happen with the currencies and gold thing. I think the overall long term plan might be:
(a) the destruction of all the fiat currencies;
(b) then a gold or silver standard;
(c) then a new type of electronic currency, like a kind of giant global credit card system where the bank balances and currencies would be reconciled on some all powerful international computer database.

I think the powers that be would prefer the last step to just a gold standard because then they could have massive control and surveillance over people.
But when anyway could it happen? Well I think you could make a case for the fall of each of the three currencies: the euro, the dollar, and sterling, based on the huge overhang of debts especially post bailouts etc. But which first? Well as I see it, at the end of the day, the decision is likely to be more political than economic because there are always strings being pulled behind the scenes in this field all the time. So what would be the best as part of a political agenda? Well how about if they crashed sterling while the euro was still standing, that could be sold then as a humiliation for the stand alone 'little Englander' types, which might fit the agenda? Just speculating anyways but I totally agree anyway that in time the euro is for the chop just like all the others.

Don't forget too that this whole deflation cycle could continue for some time. This is because it is said that all along the plan of the powers that be was to crush people with large debts - see for example what Svali said -, and for that deflation is the weapon of choice because if the currencies go down then you would have hyper inflation which would wipe out the debts and so rescue people that are slated for the chop? Maybe for a long time we will just get more of the same, a vicious deflation cycle wiping out businesses and families and massively increased regulation, taxation and state control which will make businesses uneconomic and further increase the economic turmoil. This will then cause the people to cry out against private ownership and enterprise and give public backing for a kind of communist system where the powers that be can really turn the screw on any dissidents etc. quote







Has everyone noticed that LennyLiver has now stressed that the most important thing is that Ireland not default.

That is to counter the growing numbers of people who are beginning to realise that default is the exact thing that is needed. That and the break from the stranglehold of the euro.

Instead everyone is to be bled dry by the deflation. How long this deflation continues remains to be seen

My opinion is that it has just about run it's course. The inflation will now wipe out those left standing still with jobs. The moneymasters can inflate away but the wages will not rise resulting in the standard of living of the worker being reduced to destitution.

The country will in effect go through a cull like Russia endured but a lot worse




_____________________________________
my sig Recent Discussions - Real Irish Politics Forums
 

Almanac

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Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
3,139
Interesting posts Scolaire.

Just printed off and read them today.

I would just raise a few points. I don't think the evidence supports the contention that there is a monolithic international conspiracy. Certainly there is a drive towards world government but it is western actors that are and always have been behind this push. It is very doubtful that such desires are shared outside the Anglo-Euro-American axis. Such a system of governance would be US-led and US-dominated for a start as Nicholas Hagger points out in his very thorough The Syndicate: The Story of the Coming World Government. Russia is actively opposing the US in several hotspots around the world, strengthening ties with enemies of the US. China and the US are battling for control over key regions connected to major resources or of key strategic importance.

When Vladimir Putin said that "a system based on cooperation between several major centres must replace this obsolete unipolar world concept" he was arguing precisely against a US-dominated new world order. In a groundbreaking Munich speech he openly opposed US full spectrum dominance. F William Engdahl analyses this speech extensively and the background to it, including intensive US provocation, involving the encirclement of Russia with army bases, attempting to bring its former satellites into NATO, the building of missile defence systems, the Georgian conflict etc in his book Full Spectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order. You refer to the Georgian conflict as if America and Russia were collaborating to intimidate Georgia. But the Georgian president is a US-educated puppet of the elite who ironically openly uses the term "new world order". He is particularly hated by the Russians, and he was used explicitly to provoke Russia, as a kind of load test. What we didn't hear in the initial media reports was that Georgia started the conflict, and that there were hundreds dead before Russia ever moved in.

As regards wanting to "breed" the white race out of existence, in fact the opposite has been the case throughout the twentieth century. Eugenic population control policies have been aimed exclusively at the developing worlds and even there sometimes with an apparent further sub-selection (90% Brazilian women of African descent sterilised as opposed to 50% of Brazilian women generally). The original population controllers, John D Rockefeller III and his colleagues, actually intended actively targetting certain desirable groups for breeding while the other groups were singled out for culling.
 
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scolairebocht

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Messages
905
Replies..

Almanac
Many thanks anyways and I just thought I'd argue the toss with you...

As regards wanting to "breed" the white race out of existence, in fact the opposite has been the case throughout the twentieth century. Eugenic population control policies have been aimed exclusively at the developing worlds and even there sometimes with an apparent further sub-selection (90% Brazilian women of African descent sterilised as opposed to 50% of Brazilian women generally).
But when you look at the terrible history of those sterilisation campaigns does it not strike you how easy they were implemented in the third world in the 70s etc? For me anyway, what happened was that these Western 'experts' on development and medicine etc had an easy enough time of it peddling their wares in those countries because of the naivety and inferiority complex towards the West that is very evident in the likes of Africa, most of Asia - I don't think its true of Japan -, and South America. And I think too within those countries the non white population is more naive - and in some cases less well educated, which also helped the naivety - than the white one which is why I think the take up of sterilisation was less among the whites in Brazil.

The powers that be just couldn't have got away with such a policy at that time in the West, the ordinary people would have been more questioning and the media and democratic systems - bad and all as they are, and they have got much worse since - would not have allowed it either. I am afraid I still think it proves my point, the powers that be are more threatened by that type of American or British person who claims ancient 'rights' and who is suspicious of government power etc. That is much truer of your white person in those countries than it is of the other races in Africa and Asia. I think they would have sterilised whites in the West if they thought they could get away with it.

I don't think the evidence supports the contention that there is a monolithic international conspiracy. Certainly there is a drive towards world government but it is western actors that are and always have been behind this push. It is very doubtful that such desires are shared outside the Anglo-Euro-American axis.
No question but that the big players in this kind of Occult 'conspiracy' tend to be American or German etc but I don't agree though that the powers that be in the East etc are any better really. They have their own Occult goings on anyway for example Tibet, which is obviously now in China, is a holy place for the Occult, and the same goes for the pyramids in Egypt. That is why the Nazis, who were into the Thule Occult Society, made expeditions to both those places. And also you have the big Muslim Brotherhood centred on Egypt, and various important Occult secret societies head quartered in Turkey and, according to Fritz Springmeier, the Lee family in China is supposed to be one of the big elite names in this 'conspiracy'.
Here is a few of the non Anglo-American leaders giving the horned hand symbol, btw if anybody wants proof that this is a significant symbol just watch the way that that 'Druwydion Pendragon' fella ends his interview in the link above:
Ahmadinejad:

King Abdullah:

King of Thailand:

Maybe you are right but I would be very pessimistic that those leaders are any better, I think all the big players are consciously working towards this NWO thing. Btw Springmeier also said that this mind/brain 'programming' thing goes on in Germany, the UK, Vietnam, Russia, and China - or at least the Chinese must have co-operated with the Russians in using it on captured soldiers from the Korean War - as well as obviously in the US. So this is quite a widespread thing, not just an Anglo-American thing at any rate.

But the Georgian president is a US-educated puppet of the elite who ironically openly uses the term "new world order".
Absolutely, but that's the usual plan these gangsters use anyway. You get your man in there as the leader and then get him to wreck the country and in particular get him to attack the Russians first in order to destroy your standing internationally and give credibility to the Russian takeover. Speaking for myself at any rate, I think those smaller countries would have a more genuine sense of national identity - excluding the corrupt President himself - and are therefore more ripe for the crushing than the likes of Russia where the elite are probably more in the pocket of the powers that be. No for me, if you are looking for the good guys!, I would look to the ordinary populations - not the high up leaders which as I say are usually in the pocket of the 'conspirators' - in smaller countries like Georgia, Iceland, Ireland even - and they are putting huge effort into destroying Irish people's faith right now -, England, that white 'militia' type in the US midwest - who are religious and nationalistic -, Switzerland, Pakistan - which is very religious -, and I would say Israel. In otherwords you are targeting those places with strong religious or nationalistic values, and, I still claim!, the white countries are also more of a threat that way too.

Anyways I think we agree on most things so I thought I would try to do a better job of persuading you about the whole race malarkey again! Now if you sit back and you look at world history for the course of the last 1000 years or so maybe you might agree that the glory years for much of Asia - excluding China, Korea and Japan maybe - and Africa was roughly the period 1850-1950. Realistically - albeit a sweeping statement I admit :) - before 1850 a lot of these places were undeveloped and not well run backwaters and after the c.1950 period they reverted to this state? If you look at the railway system in India or whatever you can see that that kind of period was when those countries flourished? In otherwords, un PC as it is to say so!, these countries were badly run before the white man came and badly run after he left!

Ok the immediate answer that you will hear to this is that they were exploited before 1850 by the West, e.g. the slave trade in East Africa and the Opium Wars in China etc etc, and after 1950 were cheated and exploited by the West again, via unfair trading practices and IMF shenanigans etc, and this explains their underdevelopment pre-1850 and post-1950. Fair enough, both statements are I think very true and a very definite factor in this but, again realistically, this isn't enough of an explanation for the overwhelming problems in native run Africa and Asia at the present time. Like look at it this way, the former Rhodesia and white run South Africa faced virtually the whole world on their own in terms of huge trading difficulties etc and still the whites ran those countries much better than the natives that came after them? Again, just looking at this cooly, is it the case that these whites are just better at running countries? In contrast to that experience in Africa and Asia you have the likes of England with maybe half a century of much the same democratic and legal system, by and large with little mishap, and much the same is true of the old legislatures in the likes of Iceland and Switzerland. We are conditioned not to look at it this way but is it not fair to ask is there a pattern here, are these whites from North Western Europe better at running countries, or at least better able to manage the current model of a nation state?

Anyway the point is that these NWO types, who are themselves very racist with their elaborate 'bloodlines' etc, might have read the tea leaves here as regards international history and that might be why they would prefer to abolish the white governments in Africa and Asia and target for big immigration the white countries of North Western Europe and North America. This is because obviously from their point of view they want badly run countries, the more the current nation states collapse the easier it is to usher in a world government.

So to bite this bullet squarely, lets ask the six million dollar question, why is it that these white races seem better at running countries - leaving aside for a minute that argument above about the superiority and inferiority complex -, what's really going on here? I do NOT subscribe to the opinion that there is anything inherently more intelligent about the English or any of these other races. I genuinely don't think that, and I don't think history bears that out either, although to be fair they tended to have a lot of well read administrators who were big into the classics and history and this no doubt helped them in ruling these places. So what is it anyway? What makes these white countries 'tick' smoothly where it doesn't seem to work as well for some of the other races?

Well when I was going around on the Lisbon campaign I was talking to this guy who was also on the No side and he was saying that countries work well in proportion to the amount of generosity of spirit among the population. In otherwords if you have a large amount of people who are prepared to work for the betterment of their country for nothing then the country will be run Ok. He himself was doing trojan work spending enormous amounts of time and money putting up posters all over the place totally for nothing - whereas don't forget that a lot of the established parties are now paying people to put up posters and, at least via 'payment in kind', even to canvass. So if you have a country where most people need money to do things like that, then the political system dances to the tune of the people who have the money - the state and the EU usually, who are paying the big parties - rather than working for the guy who is sincere in wanting the best for his country. That might explain a lot of the problems in any country, even a lot of the problems in modern Ireland because a few years ago there were a lot more volunteers doing what my friend was doing than is evident now. Maybe you could speculate that the reason why the GAA continued to be run well, at least until recently, was because it was run by volunteers unlike so many other areas of modern Irish society.

Anyway maybe we could put that concept back into judging white societies like England. One thing that will strike you about the history of that country is the degree to which it was traditionally run by volunteers rather than by people who got paid to do things in civil society. Even their army was run that way traditionally. As far as I know the UK is the only country in the world that could call upon a huge volunteer army whereas in most other countries they had to be conscripted. Then you look at America and think of the iconic words of Kennedy when he said "think not of what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." I think too that the strong role of Christianity, which was traditionally evident in England and the US, helps this 'generosity' factor because that religion always emphasised how difficult it is for rich people to get to heaven etc. In any case maybe I am unfair here but I don't see this factor as being as much in evidence in some of the modern countries in Africa and Asia, so I think this could be the swing factor in making these countries difficult to survive as opposed to the white countries. You look at some of the leaders that come to power in Africa and you get the impression that their supporters - and family - are only in it for that they can get out of it in government jobs etc. And yes you do get a whiff of this sometimes from Fianna Fáil say and it is that selfishness that is a large part of the problems in Ireland too. This can also affect different social classes as well, like if people on social welfare or who are working in some area of the public service or whatever are motivated in politics only in looking after their own group then clearly the ability of the country to hold together - and avoid large debts etc - will collapse. Anyway the point is that you can see how this kind of 'selfishness' seems to be the answer as to why some countries survive and some don't. And maybe I am wrong but I cannot picture those modern leaders in Africa and Asia motivating their people by appealing to them like Kennedy was able to rally Americans.

In any case its just another way of looking at this issue I guess....
 
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Almanac

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Almanac
Many thanks anyways and I just thought I'd argue the toss with you...

But when you look at the terrible history of those sterilisation campaigns does it not strike you how easy they were implemented in the third world in the 70s etc? For me anyway, what happened was that these Western 'experts' on development and medicine etc had an easy enough time of it peddling their wares in those countries because of the naivety and inferiority complex towards the West that is very evident in the likes of Africa, most of Asia - I don't think its true of Japan -, and South America. And I think too within those countries the non white population is more naive - and in some cases less well educated, which also helped the naivety - than the white one which is why I think the take up of sterilisation was less among the whites in Brazil.
But the point is that developing countries were especially singled out. I'm sure you are familiar with Kissinger's NSSM 200 and the Club of Rome's Global 2000. In any case, I wrote extensively about them on the American thread.

The powers that be just couldn't have got away with such a policy at that time in the West, the ordinary people would have been more questioning and the media and democratic systems - bad and all as they are, and they have got much worse since - would not have allowed it either. I am afraid I still think it proves my point, the powers that be are more threatened by that type of American or British person who claims ancient 'rights' and who is suspicious of government power etc. That is much truer of your white person in those countries than it is of the other races in Africa and Asia. I think they would have sterilised whites in the West if they thought they could get away with it.
But if you read the document you'll see that it was third world population growth which is singled out specifically as a security threat to the US.

No question but that the big players in this kind of Occult 'conspiracy' tend to be American or German etc but I don't agree though that the powers that be in the East etc are any better really. T
Here is a few of the non Anglo-American leaders giving the horned hand symbol, btw if anybody wants proof that this is a significant symbol just watch the way that that 'Druwydion Pendragon' fella ends his interview in the link above:
Ahmadinejad:

King Abdullah:

King of Thailand:

Maybe you are right but I would be very pessimistic that those leaders are any better,
I don't think they are any better. I just don't believe that there is global unity or agreement between the various leaders. All the evidence suggests the opposite. In fact Iraq was a case in point. Before there was ever public disagreement, major differences of opinion between France and the US had been leaked from the Bilderberg Group meeting in which it was discussed.

By the way, the Sign of the Horn has a wide variety of meanings. Bush was accused of being a Satanist for using the sign by people who weren't aware that 'Hook 'em horns' is the slogan hand signal of the University of Texas.

Speaking for myself at any rate, I think those smaller countries would have a more genuine sense of national identity - excluding the corrupt President himself - and are therefore more ripe for the crushing than the likes of Russia where the elite are probably more in the pocket of the powers that be.
I certainly don't think the leaders are good- just a different style of badness, in all probability. But Putin is supposed to have kicked the Rothschilds out of Russia when he imprisoned that oligarch. Certainly Lord Rothschild was involved.

No for me, if you are looking for the good guys!, I would look to the ordinary populations - not the high up leaders which as I say are usually in the pocket of the 'conspirators' - in smaller countries like Georgia, Iceland, Ireland even - and they are putting huge effort into destroying Irish people's faith right now -, England, that white 'militia' type in the US midwest - who are religious and nationalistic -, Switzerland, Pakistan - which is very religious -, and I would say Israel. In otherwords you are targeting those places with strong religious or nationalistic values, and, I still claim!, the white countries are also more of a threat that way too.

Anyways I think we agree on most things so I thought I would try to do a better job of persuading you about the whole race malarkey again!

In any case its just another way of looking at this issue I guess....
Yes, I think we agree on the essential point- western civilisation is heading for the falls but a Great King will help restore all things. :D

BTW, I think the reason those countries are run so badly is relatively simple- decades of covert ops orchestrating instability, fomenting wars, and installing dictatorships. They have never had a chance to develop naturally.
 

scolairebocht

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Addendum ad Addenda

Bush was accused of being a Satanist for using the sign by people who weren't aware that 'Hook 'em horns' is the slogan hand signal of the University of Texas.

I see...emm...and that other fella from Iran is heavy into the American football too?...didn't know that but you live and learn, and then theres King Abdullah, and Sarkozy and Berlusconi, in pictures you can see all over the web, all big into the American football.....you'd never think it...amazing altogether....btw there's this wonderful bridge we have over here...going cheap!lol.
Only messing but seriously whoever spins you that yarn about the longhorns, as we say out here, don't mind them!lol. Its been a recognised satanic sign since Methusala, approximately :), and its the way Satanists greet and recognise one another. I honestly think that if you read up on the various Occult symbols and terminology, and the ones involved in this mind 'programming' thing, then you really would be astonished at the frequency you will see those symbols around you, too frequent to be coincidental.
Look at it another way with respect to Bush. I am sure you would agree that he was a member of the Skull and Bones and are the symbols and practices of that society not clearly Occultic? And, by reading even the established media, you can see that he attends the Bohemian Grove thing in California. That also is clearly Occultic, how could a sincere Christain be involved in worshipping an owl, or anything remotely similiar to such a practice, which again is pretty blatently happening at that Grove? So consequently it is a short step from that to admitting that Bush must be aware of Occultic symbols, and in all probability is using those symbols because he is involved in it?


All the evidence suggests the opposite. In fact Iraq was a case in point. Before there was ever public disagreement, major differences of opinion between France and the US had been leaked from the Bilderberg Group meeting in which it was discussed.

For me international politics works a lot like national politics, its just a puppet show put on for your amusement, street theatre with both sides in on the joke on the ordinary people. And also, like national politics, you should watch the 'mood music' rather than the facts of the drama because that might give a clue as to what they want to imprint on the minds of the general public.

So to put that analysis to the test, look carefully at the last 10 years or so of international politics as it has been beamed into the brain of that brainwashed guinea pig watching his nightly news in the West. We have had 9/11 and then every year some other drama supposedly caused by Muslim terrorists. We also have had the cartoons thing, the head of the Anglican Church talking about how sharia law should be introduced, we had the Pope talking about the Crusades at one point, we had the Salman Rushdie jihad thing, we had the controversy in France and other countries on burkhas and the question of minarets etc etc. What is the mood music telling us here? Its simple, the Muslim world is bad and out to get us unless we can stop them first.

Now lets look at it from the point of view of the general public in the Muslim world observing the news. He is told constantly that the West is the big backer of Israel and that it is out to kill Muslims at the drop of a hat, and the constant martydom of the Palestinian people at the hands of the West's ally is nightly news all across the Islamic world. We have had the invasion of Iraq, a very large and important country, by the West on a very obviously unjust pretext, and the appalling treatment of the people there, same goes for Afghanistan and probably now Pakistan. The message is clear, the West is the big bad bully and out to conquer the Islamic world, so hopefully Iran will fire a few well aimed missiles and teach them a lesson or two etc etc.

So you read the tea leaves there and you will get your answer as to what is really going on, somebody somewhere is aiming to provoke a global world war between the EU, representing the traditional Christian world, and the Muslim world, headed by Iran which is being highlighted by the media in such a way that Muslims look to it as their leader. That, for me anyway, is maybe the best way to follow international politics, imagine the news as attempted 'brainwashing' of the public watching it and ask why, as opposed to giving any heed to supposed French/US splits etc which the media entertains us with. We are in the same type of period as say 1905-1914 when the powers that be were clearly involved in provoking jealousies between the German and British Empires in order to bring about WWI (a cause that Erskine Childers was furthering when he wrote Riddle in the Sands, he, and especially his wife, were very much a part of this clique) only in this case it is to be between the Christians and Muslims. Why, I hear you ask? Simple, to kill each other off, the powers that be dislike all monotheistic religions, so everytime you have a Christian kill a Muslim and vis a versa you are killing off your enemies. Also in the long run this might engender a mood whereby people will say that ending religious differences, meaning actually abolishing all religions, are necessary for world peace. It will be the EU that will be the main player for the Western side because the US army is already very committed elsewhere and it will be useful for the powers that be to use the war to cement the nascent EU superstate. Iran will be the lead country for the Muslim side because it is actually most under the control of the powers that be, hence Ahmadinejad and his Satanic salute, and they always like controlling both sides of any conflict.


But the point is that developing countries were especially singled out. I'm sure you are familiar with Kissinger's NSSM 200 and the Club of Rome's Global 2000.

You know more about those documents than I but my impression is that those plans were at least semi-public documents at the time? Well like the thing is that the powers that be are always going to put a slant or spin on such documents especially if they are to be openly read by people? My impression is that the overall spin they have there is that this is a plan to rescue the world from the inequalities of third world versus developed world etc. Hence when they are talking about over population problems they are mentioning it in the context of Africa, Asia and South America etc? Because thats the overall thrust of those documents? Supposedly anyway, they aren't really about the problems in the advanced West? And anyway it would just shock people in the West too much if they were going to say 'oh by the way we want to target White people for x, y and z.' I just think thats the spin, they will, and maybe are secretly, targetting the White population for the same treatment.
It would remind you of all those public military documents where they talk about using crowd control or non lethal weapons in third world conflicts etc. Thats what they have to say in a public document but their agenda might be to prepare to use those devices and techniques against the population in the West.


BTW, I think the reason those countries are run so badly is relatively simple- decades of covert ops orchestrating instability, fomenting wars, and installing dictatorships.

Thats very true, its a definite factor, but for me its still not enough of an explanation for the dissapointed hopes that everybody had when Africa etc got its independence.

This is a report of a conversation that the then editor of the Sunday Times, Harry Hodson, had with Joshua Nkomo, one of the emerging African leaders in Rhodesia before independence:
"Nkomo said he welcomed economic recession because it weakened the Europeans even though it hurt Africans. The Africans were now interested only in power."
( Autobiography, by Harry Hodson, Chapter 11 )
There is something raw and 'selfish' about that kind of approach to politics is there not? I think if the big African leaders were like that you could see the country after independence was bound to fall apart. All the great hopes turned to nought when the Empires collapsed, this is the same writer talking with friends in India in 1964, obviously not long after independence:
"In Madras, my air journey’s end, I had a fascinating talk with ex-President Rajagopalachari in his modest home. He said he envied me my early return to England. How could he say that, I asked, astonished: he who was the most distinguished of elder statesmen in his own country and his own Madras province, of which he had formerly been Chief Minister, and who still had an important role to play as President of the Swatantra Party? “You go back to a country which is uncorrupt,” he replied: “here, nowadays, everything is for sale, from a seat in Parliament to a licence to open a sweetshop.”"
( Autobiography, by Harry Hodson, Chapter 12 )
There has got to be deeper reasons for this?

As I see it this favouring of those races can be seen in the way this economic crisis is shaping up. I think you will find that the likes of India, China and Brazil will grow in importance after the crisis, because they aren't so heavily in debt and anyway their economies were helped by the suspicious alacrity with which the powers that be have transferred a lot of manufacturing know how from the West into those countries. They are doing this, imho, because they like dealing with those big developing nations. They are hopelessly corrupt and the natives are easier led and controlled than the white populations of countries like America.

Just my opinion anyways....
 
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Almanac

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Messages
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Bush was accused of being a Satanist for using the sign by people who weren't aware that 'Hook 'em horns' is the slogan hand signal of the University of Texas.

I see...emm...and that other fella from Iran is heavy into the American football too?...didn't know that but you live and learn, and then theres King Abdullah, and Sarkozy and Berlusconi, in pictures you can see all over the web, all big into the American football.....you'd never think it...amazing altogether....btw there's this wonderful bridge we have over here...going cheap!lol.
Only messing but seriously whoever spins you that yarn about the longhorns, as we say out here, don't mind them!lol. Its been a recognised satanic sign since Methusala, approximately :), and its the way Satanists greet and recognise one another.
Er... it is actually the hand signal of the University of Texas. I'm not making it up. Do you think Bush and his wife were giving a Satanic salutation to a roomful of Christians? Look, I've seen all the photos of leaders left, right and centre, including Pat Robertson, the Pope, Catholic bishops etc, all supposedly for no apparent reason giving public Satanic salutations. Surely they would be a little more careful, less obvious. Does it not occur to you that some of the photos might have been doctored- you know, photoshop? In any case, there are doubts about the authenticity of some of them. Don't get me wrong, I know there are real Satanists, but they are not a unified group and there are no international covens where they meet. About the closest is Bohemian Grove but, aberrant and all as it is, it's more paganism than Satanism.

And, there are a wide variety of meanings to this hand signal, just as there are to many other gestures:
  • In baseball, the gesture, especially when the forearm is rotated, indicates "two outs." In the common signal for "two" (the index and middle finger raised), the fingers may be too close together for distant outfielders to distinguish the two fingers from one. Elston Howard is commonly credited with originating this use.[citation needed]
  • Similarly, in American football, a referee will use the sign to indicate "second down".
  • In volleyball the sign can be used (the fingers often points downwards) by the setter to communicate with the attacker, frequently to signal a double quick-attack play with the middle and right-side attackers.
  • The Blue Man Group, in their Megastar 2.0 Tour performances, posit a comedic false origin of this gesture as a tribute to rock legend Floppie the Banjo Clown, a character whose hair is arranged with two large vertical protuberances causing his head to resemble the gesture.
  • This is also a part of an unofficial sign for "****************************************" in American Sign Language. See: Profanity in ASL
  • In WWE, it is the signature taunt of Edge. When Edge walks to the ring he performs his signature taunt whilst his signature fireworks go off. Edge's ex-girlfriend Lita, as well as former in-character proteges Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder, also used this as their signature pose, though Lita's use was before joining with Edge while Hawkins and Ryder's was during their association with him.[citation needed] Pro wrestling referees similarly use the sign to represent a "two count", as opposed to the first two fingers. This use is similar to baseball's use.
  • Many Houstonians in Texas use the symbol to represent "The H" as in H-Town, because of the hands being in the shape of an H.
  • In Hinduism and Buddhism, this gesture is known as the Karana Mudra. Its use in dispelling evil or negative influences is a noticeable juxtaposition to the contemporary uses of this sign.
Look at it another way with respect to Bush. I am sure you would agree that he was a member of the Skull and Bones and are the symbols and practices of that society not clearly Occultic? And, by reading even the established media, you can see that he attends the Bohemian Grove thing in California. That also is clearly Occultic, how could a sincere Christain be involved in worshipping an owl, or anything remotely similiar to such a practice, which again is pretty blatently happening at that Grove? So consequently it is a short step from that to admitting that Bush must be aware of Occultic symbols, and in all probability is using those symbols because he is involved in it?
Yes, Bush was a Bonesman. The trouble is that there are so many different groups and so many different theories about who is most powerful or actually in control- the Freemasons / Illuminati, Skull and Bones (eg, Professor Antony Sutton pins nearly all the blame for American policy on this group), Satanists, Black Nobility, the Committee of 300, Society of the Elect / Round Table, Zionists, Royal Institute of International Affairs, Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission etc. Clearly I am concerned about the influence of covert forces, otherwise I wouldn't write about them, but I try to limit myself to what can be demonstrated by evidence.

For me international politics works a lot like national politics, its just a puppet show put on for your amusement, street theatre with both sides in on the joke on the ordinary people. And also, like national politics, you should watch the 'mood music'...

That, for me anyway, is maybe the best way to follow international politics, imagine the news as attempted 'brainwashing' of the public watching it and ask why, as opposed to giving any heed to supposed French/US splits etc which the media entertains us with.
Yeah but I mentioned that it had been reported from inside a Bilderberg meeting- long before it became public. And by someone very experienced and very reliable, Daniel Estulin, who is also incidentally very good at seeing through propaganda.

You know more about those documents than I but my impression is that those plans were at least semi-public documents at the time?
No. National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM) 200. It was only declassified under Freedom of Information years later, which then led to a Brazilian congressional investigation and the discoveries I highlighted previously.
 

scolairebocht

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Occult in plain sight...

I'm not making it up. Do you think Bush and his wife were giving a Satanic salutation to a roomful of Christians? Look, I've seen all the photos of leaders left, right and centre, including Pat Robertson, the Pope, Catholic bishops etc, all supposedly for no apparent reason giving public Satanic salutations. Surely they would be a little more careful, less obvious.
Sure what do they care, the vast majority of ordinary people take no interest and have no knowledge of these symbols, and even where they do the implications of such a vast 'conspiracy' are so daunting that they will naturally make excuses for their heroes using them. Look at all the media, that stuff is everywhere. Star shapes, both inverted and upright, are Occult symbols too and I think it was the American Idol show that had a huge star on stage as the contestants performed. Look at Big Brother, another hugely hyped thing, and see the image of the eye that was on the machine where the contestants 'confessed' etc etc.

but I try to limit myself to what can be demonstrated by evidence.
Well thats fair enough and by right we shouldn't be arguing but I just think that this Occult stuff is as proven as anything else? You have all this eye witness testimony on youtube etc? As far as I know there is as much first hand testimony that has emerged about the Occult groups as there has been from Bilderbergs, if not quite a bit moreso?
Look at it another way, if you take a tramp down the aisles of your average video/video game store and look at the titles surely you would be struck at the amount of Occult themes that are there? Say the Harry Potter and the Dan Brown books/films as an example, they have clearly got bucketfulls of publicity and funding which, for me anyway, usually indicates the hand of the powers that be. And why? Well maybe they want people to get into this area and become Occultists like themselves? Some of these works as well have a suspicious slant in favour of modern Occult groups. If you read The Da Vinci Code, a work that has got so much publicity that many people out there have read no other book, it mentions a modern Satanic ritual that one of the characters accidentally witnessed and it comes across as a kind of harmless but ancient and wonderful thing. I was just watching the trailers for Angels and Demons on youtube (I read the book but didn't see the film) and there the Illuminati are portrayed as a wonderful group of scientists, sculptors and artists who were oppressed by the Church.

Maybe another way to look at the Occult influence in this conspiracy is to hear the testimony from all those survivors of this mind/brain 'programming', most of whom also describe being subjected to Satanic Ritual Abuse. e.g. Lynne Sharman, in the link listed below, says that:
"Almost all of the survivors - certainly over 90% - describe having been either consciously or wittingly offered up to the cult abuse and then to the mind control experimentation that followed."
So if you believe their accounts then you have to believe that there is a link between the powers that be and the Occult?

Yeah but I mentioned that it had been reported from inside a Bilderberg meeting- long before it became public. And by someone very experienced and very reliable, Daniel Estulin, who is also incidentally very good at seeing through propaganda.
Ok well maybe you are right and I am wrong about that, maybe the French and Americans were genuinely arguing at that time but if so they certainly are singing from the same hymn sheet since Sarkozy arrived! I am just very sceptical about those news reports normally...

No. National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM) 200. It was only declassified under Freedom of Information years later, which then led to a Brazilian congressional investigation and the discoveries I highlighted previously.
Yes but I still think that they frequently put a spin, a sort of sanitised misdirection, on even their secret documents, and this idea of trying to solve poverty in the Third World is frequently one of the lines they take. If you watch that video by George Hunt he makes that very point, he said you have to sort of 'decode' the spin all the time when you are trying to understand what they are saying, even when they are talking in secret meetings.
As an example of this kind of misdirection of even secret documents consider the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. That document has been argued about for about a century but some of these Illuminati defectors and researchers, that are listed above, have cleared up the mystery a bit. It is said now that the document was drawn up by Pike as notes for briefings that he, or his successors, gave to those involved in the Palladian Rite in Europe in the last years of the 19th century. The reference to 'Elders' is apparently a common Occultic term, and the 'Goyim' bit refers to a kind of 'human cattle' and not to Gentiles. They are saying now that when it was published in Russia it was deliberately spun as a document drawn up by Jews, and the English translator innocently preserved that spin, whereas actually it is reported to have been this Illuminati document with this kind of deliberate misdirection added into it. While unfortunately there are a lot of Jewish families connected into this 'conspiracy', nonetheless apparently it is not at all the case that the Jewish faith or people as a whole are at all popular with these 'powers that be.'


Here a few more links anyway on the question of survivors of this mind/brain 'programming':
Lynn Moss-Sharman interviewed on camera here: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q-7-MiAau4"]YouTube- MKULTRA survivor speaks 1 of 2[/nomedia] , and in a radio interview she says that her story is also tied into the question of Satanic families and the ongoing abuse: ckln16 .
Claudia Mullen, interviewed in March 1995 in Washingon D.C. by the President's Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=het0FIAtH3M"]YouTube- Mind Control Survivors' Testimony 1995 - 3 - claudia mullen[/nomedia] .
Christina Denicola, also interviewed by the above mentioned committee: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXDASDDrDkM"]YouTube- MKULTRA Victim Testimony B:[/nomedia] .
Blanche Chavoustie, who was also interviewed by Wayne Morris for his radio program: MCF: CKLN 18 - Blanche Chavoustie .

Some of the victims of this technology, and a few of their therapists and lawyers, prepared a video to highlight their case which you can see here: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StNc7Bt3QzI"]YouTube- MKULTRA group 1 of 3[/nomedia] . There you can hear the short testimonies of Kathy Lewis, from Ontario, Susan Benson, from Detroit, Chuck Davenport, from Michigan, Kathleen Sullivan, from Reading Pennsylvania, who gives her account in more detail here: Kathleen Sullivan's '01 Conference Presentation , Terry Barker, from Toronto and Becky McDonald, from Pittsburgh.
Robert Logie, one of Cameron's Canadian patients that successfully sued the CIA and so proved their support for this mind 'programming' phenonomon, interviewed here in 2008: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDEwm0WEmuo"]YouTube- Robert Logie Interview[/nomedia] .

So is the reality of this not 'demonstrated by the evidence' as much as anything else is, or?
 

scolairebocht

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I was going to add this in here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/zoo/164903-illuminati-card-game.html , but its been zoofied so I thought I should add it to this thread. This is a really really interesting few tapes that have been added to youtube recently and I thought I would begin by being clear as to who are the personalities mentioned here:

Dr Lawrence Dunegan was made an MD in the University of Pittsburgh in 1963, in the late 60s early 70s period he taught alongside Donna Nativio in teaching the first on the job educational program for public health nurses in Allegheny County, in 1984 he was the Instructor of Clinical Pedriatrics at the same university, and under that title co-signed a letter, alongwith a number of other medical personnel, to President Reagan on the abortion issue, and he died on the 9th of January 2004.

Dr Richard Day, was born in Manhattan and graduated as an MD from Harvard Medical School in 1931, was associate professor at the College of Physicians and Surgeons at Columbia University from 1935 to 1953, professor and chairman of the department of pediatrics in the Downstate Medical School in Brooklyn from 1953 to 1956, professor and chairman of the department of pediatrics at the University of Pittsburgh from 1956 to 1965, during which he taught Dr Dunegan, national medical director of Planned Parenthood from 1965-1968 - and its probably here that he tripped across the information that was revealed below -, professor of pediatrics at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in Manhattan from 1968-1971, in 1986 he received the highest, Howland, Award from the American Pediatric Society, and died at his home in Westbrook, Conneticut, on the 15th of June 1989.

Randy Engel, is a well known journalist and writer who specialised on Vietnam issues in the early 60s and later became a leading figure in the anti-abortion movement in the US. She has written a number of books including one that alleges that the Catholic Church in the US was effectively taken over by a homosexual clique that included Cardinal's Spellman, Bernardin and Wright and Pope Paul VI. That isn't important here anyway but the point is that she was a friend of Dr Dunegan's, from the anti-abortion movement I think, and it seems she inspired him to make these tapes. Then later in 1991 she interviewed Dr Dunegan and the later interview was added to the other tapes and they were nationally sold through traditional Catholic and anti-abortion groups in the US.

Anyway the story goes that Dr Dunegan was a member of the Pediatric Society in Pittsburgh and they hold about four meetings a year where they have a meal and then listen to some outside lecturer give a paper on some topic relevant to Pediatrics. So he attended one such meeting on the 20th of March 1969 where the aforementioned Dr Richard Day gave a talk entitled "Family Planning: Infant Mortality, Gene Frequency, Abortion and Other Considerations" at the Lamont restaurant in Pittsburgh. Although he was told not to, he took some notes of the meeting on paper napkins (that reference is via Dr Stanley Monteith, who later interviewed Dr Dunegan) and with those notes he recorded these tapes in 1988 as his recollection of what Dr Day said at the talk. So without anymore ado here are those tapes made in 1988, i.e. six youtube videos in total and its well worth listening to the end: [video=youtube;3dYRRXUFUdg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dYRRXUFUdg[/video] .
 


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