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High court ruling quashes the anti begging law


Don Herron

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Nov 17, 2010
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834
Some excellent news for the most disadvantaged, vulnerable people in the community. The Criminal Justice (Public Order) 2011 Act, which prohibited begging near ATMs and shops has been quashed. Gardai now have to establish whether beggars have a licence under the Street and House to House Collection Act of 1962.

The High Court case was brought in the names of two men – Florin Rostas, a Roma gypsy, and John Maughan.

Their lawyers argued successfully that under the Act the gardai must establish that they did not have a licence to solicit money from the public.

Both had been charged under Section 2 of the 2011 Act, which prohibits begging that involves harassment or obstruction.

The 2011 Act defines begging as requesting or soliciting money "other than in accordance with a licence, permit or authorisation".

The High Court found that the gardai were obliged "to establish a prima facie case that the begging took place without legal authorisation".

It added: "Once this is established the burden of proof is transferred to the accused to establish a reasonable doubt as to the legality of the begging.

"It is a matter for the trial judge to decide if a prima facie case has been established."

The High Court case succeeded in January last year but it took a further year for the bulk of the begging convictions – it is understood there were around 200 convictions – to begin being struck out on appeal.

Once this began the beggars began returning to the streets.
High Court ruling helps put beggars back on our streets - Independent.ie

I must say that I thought this law was, at least in part, motivated by racism towards the Roma community. At least now they can practice their culture with much less fear of being arrested by the gardai. Well done to the solicitors and the judge involved.
 

Ulster-Lad

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Oct 26, 2006
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poxy ruling
 

Mercurial

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Jun 4, 2009
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Some excellent news for the most disadvantaged, vulnerable people in the community. The Criminal Justice (Public Order) 2011 Act, which prohibited begging near ATMs and shops has been quashed. Gardai now have to establish whether beggars have a licence under the Street and House to House Collection Act of 1962.


High Court ruling helps put beggars back on our streets - Independent.ie

I must say that I thought this law was, at least in part, motivated by racism towards the Roma community. At least now they can practice their culture with much less fear of being arrested by the gardai. Well done to the solicitors and the judge involved.
You're not fooling anyone, troll.
 

damus

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Jun 28, 2011
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23,671
Does this mean that the Gardai must first ask the person who is begging whether they have a license to collect money before they can move them on?
 

Bill

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Feb 1, 2009
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Yeah but Don you think everything is some form of racism.
 

Ulster-Lad

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Oct 26, 2006
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Yeah but Don you think everything is some form of racism.
I like the bit where he says they can practice their culture. petunia
 

eoghanacht

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Apr 18, 2006
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33,340
I've a Roma neighbour who used to own a stall in the market which he and his family worked for the last two years and a few before that.

He saved up enough to be able to sign a lease on a shop on the main street and is doing quite well.

He abhors seeing his own begging. Says it makes it harder for the likes of him who wish to become accepted to do just that.

I drew parallels with the first Italian immigrants to America and the following of that by the maffia and how after a generation people began to realise that not all Italians are mafioso and that in time people here will come to realise that not all roma are criminals.

He welcomed the ban on begging as he said 'It will stop the gangs traveling here and allow those in the community (Roma) present another face of the Roma people.
 

johnny365

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Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,367
This is a mistake by Gardai,they can still prosecute. They need to get a certificate for a Supt saying that the person in question has not got a permit and take it from there, Basically its Garda procedure errors that brought about this.

Don if you think some of the Roma beggars are some of the most disadvantaged in our society they your not living in the real world.
 

nonpartyboy

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Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
6,857
Some excellent news for the most disadvantaged, vulnerable people in the community. The Criminal Justice (Public Order) 2011 Act, which prohibited begging near ATMs and shops has been quashed. Gardai now have to establish whether beggars have a licence under the Street and House to House Collection Act of 1962.


High Court ruling helps put beggars back on our streets - Independent.ie

I must say that I thought this law was, at least in part, motivated by racism towards the Roma community. At least now they can practice their culture with much less fear of being arrested by the gardai. Well done to the solicitors and the judge involved.
Indeed, maybe they'll stop cleaning shops out of it up and down the country now......a good day for shopkeepers.
 

johnny365

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Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,367
Worse, the Gardai have to prove the person didn't have a permit.
This is a joke as they will have to go to the Supt and get a cert saying th person in question doe snot have a permit. Roma begging is a serious problem for the tourist trade in this country.
 

storybud1

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Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
6,741
This can be easily fixed, all the government have to do is pass a law that anyone who is soliciting money for charity or begging on the streets must have a permit to do so. They simply go to the local Garda station with photo ID and proof of where they live. The Garda if satisfied can issue a day ticket costing about a Euro for that area only.

That way a record is kept and Garda on the beat will know who has a permit to collect on that day and can check with the desk sergeant any ticket issued.

It would take normal people about an hour to come up with a plan and implement it.
 

stakerwallace

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Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,434
They should criminalise the act of giving money to non-charitable street collectors. The fine would be equal to the amount given, and the money taken and given to proper charities.
So if I give to the local wino, I get done for the same amount.. ah Jaysus.
 

NewGoldDream

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Jun 13, 2004
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Has the Court really quashed the legislation?

It sounds like they've merely required that the Gardai make an enquiry of the individual as part if the process.
 
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