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High income tax rates need to be cut, maybe in a tradeoff for higher local property taxes

patslatt

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Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
See Squeezed-middle's tax too high - IMF - Independent.ie

The welfare state has to be paid for,including extremely generous pay and pensions for the Irish public sector who run it. The burden of paying for Ireland's modest welfare state has been carried disproportionately by income taxes given the Irish reluctance to pay property taxes on houses.

In austerity,already high Irish income taxes have become punitive for middle incomes, discouraging work and workforce participation. In combination with very high commercial rates, they also discourage small and medium size businesses from expanding. Marginal tax rates of about 55% apply to incomes above the average in Ireland, whereas that level of marginal rates apply only to the very rich in the USA.

When the government reduces income taxes in the next budget as promised, it likely will try to shift more taxation on to property taxes. That would make sense but will the Irish accept that tradeoff?
 


GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,090
See Squeezed-middle's tax too high - IMF - Independent.ie

The welfare state has to be paid for,including extremely generous pay and pensions for the Irish public sector who run it. The burden of paying for Ireland's modest welfare state has been carried disproportionately by income taxes given the Irish reluctance to pay property taxes on houses.

In austerity,already high Irish income taxes have become punitive for middle incomes, discouraging work and workforce participation. In combination with very high commercial rates, they also discourage small and medium size businesses from expanding. Marginal tax rates of about 55% apply to incomes above the average in Ireland, whereas that level of marginal rates apply only to the very rich in the USA.

When the government reduces income taxes in the next budget as promised, it likely will try to shift more taxation on to property taxes. That would make sense but will the Irish accept that tradeoff?
What's needed is state enterprise. Private enterprise can only fill in the gaps. We see that the Irish bourgeoisie don't have the ability to run an economy.
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,203
I'd scrap all taxes if I'd the opportunity... except income tax and VAT with multiple levels of each introduced...

I'd also close all loopholes that enable and facilitate tax avoidance and evasion.

Tax should be simple and based on the income and expenditure of the individual... because at the end of the day wealth isn't owned by corporations or conglomerates... it is is owned by individuals.

There are reasons tax is complex of course... and it's got nothing to do with fairness or with everyone paying their fair share and has everything to do with laws and regulations and the 'system' being rigged in favour of a few.
 

making waves

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Mar 2, 2010
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19,323
Cut taxes for the rich while increase taxes for the poor.

Well at least patslatt is consistent :roll:
 

wombat

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,689
Cut taxes for the rich while increase taxes for the poor.

Well at least patslatt is consistent :roll:
As the middle expands and pays more of the overall amount of tax, it becomes an attractive option. The question becomes who is rich and who poor.
 

venusian

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Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
6,936
See Squeezed-middle's tax too high - IMF - Independent.ie

The welfare state has to be paid for,including extremely generous pay and pensions for the Irish public sector who run it. The burden of paying for Ireland's modest welfare state has been carried disproportionately by income taxes given the Irish reluctance to pay property taxes on houses.

In austerity,already high Irish income taxes have become punitive for middle incomes, discouraging work and workforce participation. In combination with very high commercial rates, they also discourage small and medium size businesses from expanding. Marginal tax rates of about 55% apply to incomes above the average in Ireland, whereas that level of marginal rates apply only to the very rich in the USA.

When the government reduces income taxes in the next budget as promised, it likely will try to shift more taxation on to property taxes. That would make sense but will the Irish accept that tradeoff?
The family home tax rapist Noonan behaved like a furtive nonce fiddling about with his filthy greedy hands in ordinary decent tax payers pockets to loot money for his banksters and developer cronies via lpt, the unfit for purpose Revenue were given jack boot powers to rob the money and it didn't matter if the tax raped individuals had the money to pay or not. It will correctly be political suicide worse than anything that has happened to FG in the last election, due to their rip off by the joke corrupt "Irish Water" charges if any further government scum try to increase LPT charges. There is a vast amount of uncollected taxes facilitated by FG and Revenue not least only 6.8% of corporation tax being collected instead of the derogatory 12.5% The revelations by Stephen Donnelly of the zilch tax been paid by vulture funds would if collected be more than enough to offset and reduce personal taxes on the squeezed middle. Over to FG if they sill want to exist as FF's little rent boys and girls, an increase in LPT will bury them!
 

Mad as Fish

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Dec 6, 2012
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24,449
Yeah, only one in forty being a millionaire is just so wrong!!
 

Henry94.

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Mar 21, 2015
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why in the world would anyone take advice from the IMF if they don't have a gun to their heads.
 

Voluntary

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Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
2,865
Cut taxes for the rich while increase taxes for the poor.

Well at least patslatt is consistent :roll:
We should be internationally competitive, in regards to the rich and.. in regards to the poor.

Low earners should be paying low taxes, but no NO taxes, however low earner after tax should be still considerably better off from a no-earner.
 

Franzoni

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,469
I hope Pat is advising FF on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory............:lol:
 

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
Cut taxes for the rich while increase taxes for the poor.

Well at least patslatt is consistent :roll:
Lowering income tax rates could easily generate more income tax revenue through removing tax disincentives to work and business expansion.
 

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
I'd scrap all taxes if I'd the opportunity... except income tax and VAT with multiple levels of each introduced...

I'd also close all loopholes that enable and facilitate tax avoidance and evasion.

Tax should be simple and based on the income and expenditure of the individual... because at the end of the day wealth isn't owned by corporations or conglomerates... it is is owned by individuals.

There are reasons tax is complex of course... and it's got nothing to do with fairness or with everyone paying their fair share and has everything to do with laws and regulations and the 'system' being rigged in favour of a few.
Capitalism breathes through the loopholes in the tax laws, as famous economist Paul Samuelson said. Governments can't be seen to be too friendly to business, hence the loopholes.
 

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
The family home tax rapist Noonan behaved like a furtive nonce fiddling about with his filthy greedy hands in ordinary decent tax payers pockets to loot money for his banksters and developer cronies via lpt, the unfit for purpose Revenue were given jack boot powers to rob the money and it didn't matter if the tax raped individuals had the money to pay or not. It will correctly be political suicide worse than anything that has happened to FG in the last election, due to their rip off by the joke corrupt "Irish Water" charges if any further government scum try to increase LPT charges. There is a vast amount of uncollected taxes facilitated by FG and Revenue not least only 6.8% of corporation tax being collected instead of the derogatory 12.5% The revelations by Stephen Donnelly of the zilch tax been paid by vulture funds would if collected be more than enough to offset and reduce personal taxes on the squeezed middle. Over to FG if they sill want to exist as FF's little rent boys and girls, an increase in LPT will bury them!
I assume the expertise of foreign financed vulture funds in property bankruptcies was needed to clear up the post Celtic Tiger messes and that sly charity tax loopholes were facilitated to attract them. Instead, the government should have cut the Irish capital gains tax from the highest rate in the EU at 33% to a competitive rate in the low 20% area.

As for corporation tax, capital spending can reduce the nominal rate of 12.5% to a lower cash tax rate of less than 12.5%, say 6.8%, but the difference of 12.5 and 6.8 which is 5.7% becomes a deferred tax. The latter would become payable as the capital spending tapers off in future years.
 


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