Higher Education Authority calls for gender quotas and the like in Irish higher education institutions or they'll risk facing financial sanctions

afns1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
736
Higher Education Authority calls for gender quotas and the like in Irish higher education institutions or they'll risk facing financial sanctions

Higher Education Institutions Will Risk Funding Penalties if They Fail to Address Gender Inequality
Higher Education Institutions Will Risk Funding Penalties if They Fail to Address Gender Inequality | Higher Education Authority
My earlier thread on this was moved to zoo I think because I didn't say enough in the original post so I'd better say something.

I am very suspicious of equality of outcome measures like this. I think it can lead to people being discriminated against because they are in the wrong group.

I think a lot of feminists don't care much if men are discriminated against. They claim to campaign for equality but invariably it seems to be simply campaigning to help women. A better description would seem to be a trade union for women [which can have its place perhaps but only if it is counterbalanced with people willing to give alternative views. Unfortunately, it's not very politically correct to question them, just like we saw with gender quotas in politics where many in the public seem to be against them but politicians were generally afraid to speak up against them].
 
Last edited:


Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,672
We also need social-class quotas to encourage upward social mobility of working class people.
 

Roberto Jordan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
2,059
We also need social-class quotas to encourage upward social mobility of working class people.
And theres the rub with all superfiicial quota or positive discrimination systems based on race, creed or color.
Invariably the same type of person gets the job just with better hair/ reaction to the sun/ a different sunday routine.
The perfect example being the "inheriting" of family Dail seats by daughters & nieces rather than sons or nephews.

But is hard for people to understand that, for example, in the upper reaches of the judiciary a GAA playing bricklayers son from Mayo named Murphy might well be the more "diverse" candidate than the lady who won the prize for French in Alexandra college in 1986.........
 

Betson

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
16,739
But is hard for people to understand that, for example, in the upper reaches of the judiciary a GAA playing bricklayers son from Mayo named Murphy might well be the more "diverse" candidate than the lady who won the prize for French in Alexandra college in 1986.........
That is the problem with things like Gender quota's , a male from an underprivileged background is far more disadvantaged than a female from a better off social economic group. Quota's will just compound that in certain circumstances.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

That is the problem with things like Gender quota's , a male from an underprivileged background is far more disadvantaged than a female from a better off social economic group. Quota's will just compound that in certain circumstances.
Probably because so many of those who advocate for gender "equality" would not be well served by quotas that would address socio-economic inequality, and delude themselves into thinking they can fight for social justice without disadvantage to themselves. A triumph of shadow over substance!
 

OrderoftheDragon

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
1,927
Should there not be gender quotas in primary school teaching first, where there are far less men ?
 
D

Deleted member 45466

My place of employment have a 50-50 target for 2020. Apparently we're all supposed to become more "innovative" once we achieve it.
 

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
11,798
It's interesting how Mary Mitchell O'Connor is openly talked about as not being up to the job as minister (in yesterday's IT). I've never come across any minister talked about in those terms. I put that down to Kenny's gender quota for the cabinet.

The sad thing is it doesn't matter whether she really is or isn't up to the job. The perception exists once you got in through a quota that you probably aren't, and every faux pas gets magnified as a result.
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
The minister says women "tend to be more questioning". They may question men, but they don't seem to be very questioning of each other. There's an unhealthy "sisterhood" attitude among Irish women in politics and the media for instance.
 

amist4

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
8,865
I'm reporting you for misogyny.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

The minister says women "tend to be more questioning". They may question men, but they don't seem to be very questioning of each other. There's an unhealthy "sisterhood" attitude among Irish women in politics and the media for instance.
What does that mean though? I'm hearing that they create more innovation as well.

I've been in the Engineering business since I was 22. Back in those days we used Diazo copiers, drawing boards, ye had to make tay for the boss & senior Engineers, and wimmens were mostly secretaries (they're called "PAs" now). Since then, and thanks to GQs, I've seen the number of female engineers rise to where it's almost at 70-30. Have I seen a commensurate increase in innovation? Err...no. In fact, things are worse, because the deadlines we have to meet are ridiculous.

Once we hit 50-50, everything will be alright though.
 

Betson

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
16,739
The minister says women "tend to be more questioning". They may question men, but they don't seem to be very questioning of each other. There's an unhealthy "sisterhood" attitude among Irish women in politics and the media for instance.
So there is an acknowledgement that there is a difference between the genders on abilty. This minister has no issue saying he thinks females are superior to males and thus will discriminate in favor of them , he does not say he wants a 50/50 split he clearly says his ideal situation is for females to dominate the vast majority of state board roles and have men in less than 40% of the roles.


So it is also ok now for another minister or employer to come and say they think there a there is a difference between the genders on ability and that males are better so he/she is going discriminate in favor of males?
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,360
I've been in the Engineering business since I was 22. Back in those days we used Diazo copiers, drawing boards,
Mechanical engineering? Think the figures for Electrical and Electronic engineering are still below 10%. Software isn't as bad but still the clueless churnalists whine about it as if they could solve the problem. Some people have the necessary abilities and need to go into Engineering but most don't. Perhaps if the government closed those gender "studies" and equality "studies" courses and created some courses that provided extra training to women who wanted to go into Engineering, it would be a good thing and it might help address some of the problems. However Engineering is not the same as Arts and no amount of quotas will change that.
 

Ellen Ripley

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
6,537
In Academia and Politics they can afford to take a more "Holistic" :roll: approach, in the competitive workplace actual performance goals need to be set and targets met.

Manipulating the system by gender-based promotion is a blunt instrument and it still doesn't change the fact that fewer women than men enter STEM-based careers in the first place, and they leave them sooner.

All the 'Flexible Cascade System' will do is have the net effect of de-motivating men when they perceive unfairness.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Mechanical engineering? Think the figures for Electrical and Electronic engineering are still below 10%. Software isn't as bad but still the clueless churnalists whine about it as if they could solve the problem. Some people have the necessary abilities and need to go into Engineering but most don't. Perhaps if the government closed those gender "studies" and equality "studies" courses and created some courses that provided extra training to women who wanted to go into Engineering, it would be a good thing and it might help address some of the problems. However Engineering is not the same as Arts and no amount of quotas will change that.
Yes.

Access to tailor made training already exists for women, particularly within larger corporate institutions. The last company I worked for had a female engineering network (no male one, but men have been invited to join - little interest in it though). It provided a platform for female engineers to improve their technical abilities, and share information.

Women's "needs" are being met by larger companies, who, for all their power and clout, are afraid of their lives of offending female sensibilities. That's what I call power.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

In Academia and Politics they can afford to take a more "Holistic" :roll: approach, in the competitive workplace actual performance goals need to be set and targets met.

Manipulating the system by gender-based promotion is a blunt instrument and it still doesn't change the fact that fewer women than men enter STEM-based careers in the first place, and they leave them sooner.

All the 'Flexible Cascade System' will do is have the net effect of de-motivating men when they perceive unfairness.
Engineering MNCs and other high performance institutions have attempted to adapt a holistic approach to the helter skelter environment that we have to work in. It has failed. There's a simple fact that is often overlooked in all of this: deadlines.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top