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History Forum Rules


sean1

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
104
Website
www.gaelport.com
I was in favour of a history essays section, but I don't know if this forum will work. Politics and history just melt on this site and perhaps its better that we leave it like that.
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
Right I'll start.

I'v been reading up a good bit on ancient & medieval Irish History (pre 1169) recently.

There is a huge amount of original material here that was written in Irish and Latin too.

Given that Irish as it is taught in schools is a big turn off for so many students should we not think of replacing it with a broader curriculum that reflects a study of Irish History and Culture of which the Language would be an integral but not an exclusive part?

I recall when I studied Latin in school the History and Culture of Rome gained one points in the Leaving Cert.

Also in Maynooth when I took Greek and Roman in 1st Year the languages of those two civilizations were options that could be pursued further if one wanted.

So a Course on Ancient Irish History and Culture for Secondary school students anyone?

I know my Irish would be a lot better if I had an option like that in my day! :D
 

Seabird

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
78
I personally would love to see some early Irish history dating back to the late 1100's carrying it to present date. Oh please someone who is a history buff do this for me. Oh please, oh please! :D Alot of times I get lost in a debate or do not even enter it because of my lack of knowledge on the past history. It is hard to understand the present without understanding the past!
 

Reggie Perrin

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
25
Seabird said:
I personally would love to see some early Irish history dating back to the late 1100's carrying it to present date. Oh please someone who is a history buff do this for me. Oh please, oh please! :D Alot of times I get lost in a debate or do not even enter it because of my lack of knowledge on the past history. It is hard to understand the present without understanding the past!

In the meantime, why not go to Wiki and type in Irish History and have a read of all the info. It's general and relatively basic, but gives a grounding and you can take it from there.
 

Ordinary Guy

New member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
1
At school I studied Greek and Latin - never a great fan of the languages but the mythology that then links into the early history brings the subject to life. As the language of a people is inherently linked with the history of the country it brings both subjects more to life. If only someone could make English an interesting subject rather than the tedium of capital letters and full stops - do many of us speak that much more of it at 20 than we did at thirteen and why is it considered acceptable to get C/D grades in your own language!

Sorry to put an English twist to it but how appalling is it that we need to make it a compulsory subject for 11 years because otherwise so few would continue the study of their own culture - and to boot in so many parts of the country that this is also at the expense of a regions history and tradition.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
16
At the moment the irish history LC course starts in 1870 and ends in 1949
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
johnmcgahon dundalk YFG said:
At the moment the irish history LC course starts in 1870 and ends in 1949
Well there is no doubting it's importance but at what stage would a modern secondary school student study say Ancient Irish History or would they at all?

In my day Irish History stopped in 1921!
 

johnfás

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,727
johnmcgahon dundalk YFG said:
At the moment the irish history LC course starts in 1870 and ends in 1949
Went to the 60s when I sat it in 2004 so far as I remember. Having done history at University you do begin to forget what you did where though.
 

TheBear

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
234
johnfás said:
[quote="johnmcgahon dundalk YFG":bnvlihs9]At the moment the irish history LC course starts in 1870 and ends in 1949
Went to the 60s when I sat it in 2004 so far as I remember. Having done history at University you do begin to forget what you did where though.[/quote:bnvlihs9]
Yeah, it covered the start of the Troubles, but as things were still messy in the North, they didn't want to treat post-1969 as 'history'.
 

mercymercyme

Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
7
johnmcgahon dundalk YFG said:
At the moment the irish history LC course starts in 1870 and ends in 1949
There is two courses in history in the leaving cert - the modern and the renaissance. The renaissance covers 1450 to about 1618. By a very wide margin most students do the modern course. Given the detail the course goes into at higher level, it would be impratical for the leaving cert to try cover a wider streach of history than the periods covered in the two courses. Our history treacher in school decided he wanted to teach the renaissance instead, probably because he was bored of doing the modern course year in year out. It was a pain at the time and a few students dopped history but in retrospect it was fairly interesting for us to do an area of history outside the more mainstream modern period. It also helped me a great deal when I went to study history in Uni, renaissance history being a mandatory subject I was at an advantage to all those who did the modern course in school. In an Irish context, the renaissance period was of seminal importance, seeing the consolidation of English power, the foundations of the problems faced by modern Ireland and the decline of the political independance of the gaelic lords.
 

1111952

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
1
I published a History of Kerry recently for the market of those who did not take History at second level schooling. The plan was to use the freedom not enjoyed by writers for the school syllabus, and to go outside of the normal canon of the accepted history. I am reminded this morning as we assess the Lisbon No vote that there is huge support out there for agenda-free news, and in the writing of History this means setting aside the narrow nationalist agenda that has dominated Irish awareness as a result of the inauguration of the Free State and later the Irish Republic, with all the trappings of republicanism, separatism and so on. These are traditions in our history, of course, but they are not the only traditions, and in a sens it might be true to say that the Home Rule and Protestant traditions were marginalised or written out of history from 1918. Moreover, the concept of Liberty predates 1798 and all that followed; we find the Confederation of Kilkenny espousing Liberty (and using the word) in the 1640s when what they meant was the freedom to practice their religion and set aside the Penal Laws; and they raised the matter of Poynings' Law, which inhibited the Irish legislature.
Gerald O'Carroll (History of Kerry, 2007, 25 euros; geraldocarroll@eircom.net)
 

Nem

Active member
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
253
IHS rules

I noticed that the above posts don't really set out any 'rules' for this forum despite the title of thread. IMHO they are not really needed and in the past three years there have been some very interesting and detailed discussions of various historical topics. They certainly have added to my knowledge and, on other occasions, challenged my own perception of Irish history.

I thought it might be useful to set out a few guidelines as they are being used by Irish Historians. Note that I'm not trying to pass these of as 'rules' for this forum or anything. These are simply the rules as they are being used by Irish historians generally and throughout Irish academia. They can be found here: http://www.tcd.ie/history/ihs/pdf/rulesforcontribs.pdf

The general gist of these is as follows:

For a book: T. W. Moody, Davitt and Irish revolution (Oxford, 1981)

Rule of thumb is that where capitals aren't needed, don't use them. And avoid using the name of the publisher, but the place of publication.

When citing, use the above, but with a page number after it.

T. W. Moody, Davitt and Irish revolution (Oxford, 1981), p. 76

or

T. W. Moody, Davitt and Irish revolution (Oxford, 1981), pp 78-79

When it is a multivolume work, simply put Vol. 2 before the place of publication. The same goes for different editions (i.e. 5th edition).

Article in a book: Ciaran Brady, ‘Comparable histories? Tudor reform in Wales and Ireland’ in Steven G. Ellis and Sarah Barber (eds), Conquest and union: fashioning a British state, 1485-1725 (London, 1995)

Citing identical to a book. The above should also be used for an article in a magazine or periodical. Then the title of the magazine is in italics only and followed by the issue number (i.e. History Ireland Vol. 17 Issue 4 (July/August 2009). There is no need to include the place of publication.

Documents: The correspondence of Jonathan Swift, ed. F. E. Ball (6 vols, London, 1910-14), v, 437-8.

Rule of thumb here is to use the title first to indicate the author of the document. If the writer is unknown the name of the editor goes in in front of the title. Also note that the volume number precedes the page or folio number.

Newspapers: Irish Times, 6 Oct. 1968.

Note: there is no need to give the actual page as editions on the day might vary.

Interviews: Interview with Brian O’Mahony, 10 June 1991 (B.L. National Sound Archive, National Life Story Collection, C468/10).

Note: All in plain text.

Internet: Ulster Historical Foundation, ‘Distribution of surnames in Ireland in 1890’ (Ulster Historical Foundation - Irish Genealogy Research Ireland, Ulster, Antrim, Down, Belfast) (2 Jan. 2003).

Obviously, on an Internet forum such as this, a direct link to the article is preferable. However, pages change (i.e. Wiki) or are on occasion removed while the thread here remains. Using the above reference will avoid confusion when older posts are revisited. So note the date of access in the above and the use of the main URL. The above should also be used when downloading digital copies of books from, say, Project Gutenberg.

Hope that this is of some help for some people. For further details see the .pdf file from the TCD website
 

hippychic

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
2
augutus foster colonization of irish catholics

has anyone come across this man and could they give me some direction as to where to find out more on the 1847 colonization of the Irish catholic a bill which this man signed with many others in that year

Hippychic

Forgive me first time to the site and a bit lost as to how to use it
 

Maureen Murphy 1234

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
118
I think this would be a good idea as when wpeaking of histiry u have to develop your position to a great extent to make valid points

This is what makes us tick, if we do tick,

Surely there are tow courses available/
 
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Tom O Connor

New member
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
2
Well there is no doubting it's importance but at what stage would a modern secondary school student study say Ancient Irish History or would they at all?

In my day Irish History stopped in 1921!
Have a look at 'Ireland's Queen Maeve' on Amazon.com Kindle Store and then ask yourself that question again.

Tom O Connor
 

Malcolm Redfellow

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
3,982
Website
redfellow.blogspot.com
Twitter
mredfellow
I thoroughly enjoy this forum.

Much of the debate is uplifting and enlightening.

I don't have to agree with the posters/commenters but most contribute something special, and informative. A few are erudite and quite brilliant.

But ... you knew that was coming ... any thread on mid-20th century history is subverted by a particular contributor whose obsession is to introduce Holocaust denial, to repost vast amounts of non-history, as approved by the CODOH types.

When he runs out of pre-prepared posts, from his limited "knowledge", we find streams of abuse.

Can nothing be done to restrain such stuff?
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
24,883
I thoroughly enjoy this forum.

Much of the debate is uplifting and enlightening.

I don't have to agree with the posters/commenters but most contribute something special, and informative. A few are erudite and quite brilliant.

But ... you knew that was coming ... any thread on mid-20th century history is subverted by a particular contributor whose obsession is to introduce Holocaust denial, to repost vast amounts of non-history, as approved by the CODOH types.

When he runs out of pre-prepared posts, from his limited "knowledge", we find streams of abuse.

Can nothing be done to restrain such stuff?
You could send him to a concentration camp or make him wear a ...white star?
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
24,883
I thoroughly enjoy this forum.

Much of the debate is uplifting and enlightening.

I don't have to agree with the posters/commenters but most contribute something special, and informative. A few are erudite and quite brilliant.

But ... you knew that was coming ... any thread on mid-20th century history is subverted by a particular contributor whose obsession is to introduce Holocaust denial, to repost vast amounts of non-history, as approved by the CODOH types.

When he runs out of pre-prepared posts, from his limited "knowledge", we find streams of abuse.

Can nothing be done to restrain such stuff?
The fact is the holocaust is central to any discussion of WW2. To leave it out is to deny a major aspect of the story and the fact also is that it is nearly always dragged in by someone at some stage.

I am more often than not replying to some comment mentioning it.
 
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