History of the Good Friday pub opening prohibition

scolairebocht

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Traditionally there had always been some type of prohibition applying in England and Ireland with respect to trade on Good Friday, as an example note this from the 1448 Act of Henry VI:
"...considering the abominable injuries and offences done to Almighty God, and to his Saints...because of fairs and markets upon their high and principal feasts...and on Good Friday, accustomly and miserably holden and used in the realm of England...with drunkenness and strifes...That all manner of fairs and markets in the said principal feasts and Sundays, and Good Friday, shall clearly cease from all showing of any goods or mechandises (necessary victual only except) upon pain of forfeiture of all the goods aforesaid, so showed."(1)
Four feast days in Summer were exempt from this but on 10/6/1850 this law was revised and those four summer feast day exemptions were removed "and the said Act shall be construed as if such exception were not inserted therein" which shows that the 1448 was in other respects still applicable.

But how strictly all this was enforced until the 19th century is hard to say, probably local laws were more effective here, if they needed to be, for example here is an 18th century law with respect to London:
"This day the Magistrates for the City and Liberty of Westminster met at their Guildhall, when the following Letter from his Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury to Sir John Fielding, Knt. was read and considered:
To the Worshipful Sir John Fielding, Knt.
"Sir,
The Bishops having observed, with much concern, the increasing neglect and irreligious disregard of Good Friday, entreat the Magistrates of the City Westminster to lend their assistance, and to interpose their influence and authority to remedy as much as may be this growing evil.
I am, Sir,
Your most faithful humble Servant,
Lambeth-House, March 19, 1777. Fred. Cant."

The Magistrates, thoroughly sensible of the justice of this complaint, and most earnestly wishing to remedy this growing evil as far as they are authorised, directed the High Constable of the said City and Liberty immediately to issue Precepts, to call together all the Peace Officers in this Jurisdiction, and to require of them to go to the Publicans in their respective Wards on Thursday next, and to give them notice to shut up their houses the next day, being Good Friday, during Divine Service and that on that day, if they observe any shops open, they would exhort the Owners shut them up; and as example in the heads of families, in the attendance on Divine Worship, is of the utmost consequence to Society, it is therefore not doubted, that not only for their own sakes, but for that of their children, servants, and apprentices, this day will be commemorated in manner suitable the immense importance of the occasion.
By Order of the Justices,
Peter Forbes, Clerk of the Peace."(2)
Then when we get to the 19th century the situation is clearer, starting with the Licensing Act, 1833, section 14:
"No person licensed shall sell or retail spirits, wine, or beer to be drank or consumed in or at his house, at any time between the hours of eleven at night and seven in the morning, or at any time before two in the afternoon of any Sunday, Good Friday, Christmas Day, or Fast Day, under a penalty of £2..."(3)
And the Refreshment Houses Act, 1860 section 43:
"It shall be lawful for any person selling or licensed to sell beer, cider, spirits, or wine by retail, to be drunk or consumed on the premises, in Ireland, to keep his house open, and to sell and retail spirits, wine, and beer as aforesaid, at any time between the hour of seven of the clock in the morning and the hour of eleven o’clock at night on every day except Sunday, Good Friday, Christmas Day, or any day appointed for a public fast or thanksgiving, and on all such last-mentioned days at any time between the hour of two of the clock in the afternoon and the hour of eleven o’clock at night, being the times limited by the fourteenth section of the Licensing (Ireland) Act, 1833; but any licensed persons selling at any other times than those so limited shall be liable to the penalties imposed by the said last mentioned Act."(4)
As as random example of the enforcement of these laws:
"GOOD FRIDAY IN COLERAINE.
The first case called was that in which Constable Shannon prosecuted a novel charge against Mr. William Ellis, spirit merchant, grocer, shipowner, &c., for that he, being a licensed dealer in spirits and ale, kept his shop open for the sale of same between the hours of eleven o’clock p.m. on the 6th, and two o’clock p.m. on the 7th April, the latter day being Good Friday, contrary to the statute."(5)
Then the all important, and still enforced, 1874 Licensing Act, section 3, which applied to England and Ireland, stipulated that with respect to the 'Hour of closing premises licensed for sale of intoxicating liquors', inter alia:
"Such premises wherever situate shall be closed on Christmas Day and Good Friday, and on the days preceding Christmas Day and Good Friday respectively."(6)
This is quite a complicated Act though and there are various exemptions, under different headings which give different opening hours, that publicans could apply for via the courts.

By 1924 the complications of the aforementioned Acts had given rise to the situation outlined here by Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins, speaking in the Dail about his new 1924 Act:
"On Good Friday the present position is that the opening hours are from 2 p.m. to 9 p.m. in cities and towns where the population is over 5,000 and from 2 p.m. to 7 p.m. elsewhere. It is proposed to make Good Friday the same as Christmas Day, that is complete closing everywhere."(7)
So in practice the new Irish state just continued what had always been the case but made the licensing laws much simpler by just banning it outright rather than dancing around with the great complications in the former Acts, about 'bona fide' travellers etc etc. This then was continued on with the 1927 Act and was always the case until now.

As far as I know the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the enactment of any of these laws, albeit maybe at some date they might have expressed their support for them.

Footnotes
1. Danby Pickering, Statutes at large from the first year of King Henry V to the 22nd year of Edward IV inclusive (Cambridge, 1762), vol iii, p.295-296.

2. Leeds Intelligencer 1/4/1777, p.2.

3. Londonderry Sentinel 14/9/1833, p.3.

4. Refreshment Houses (Ireland) Act, 1860, Section 43 .

5. Coleraine Chronicle 29/4/1871, p.4.

6. James Paterson, The Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Acts, 1872, 1874 (London, 1889), p.148-149.

7. Dáil Éireann - 30/May/1924 INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL, 1924. FIRST STAGE. .
 


derryman

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Sep 17, 2011
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Traditionally there had always been some type of prohibition applying in England and Ireland with respect to trade on Good Friday, as an example note this from the 1448 Act of Henry VI:

Four feast days in Summer were exempt from this but on 10/6/1850 this law was revised and those four summer feast day exemptions were removed "and the said Act shall be construed as if such exception were not inserted therein" which shows that the 1448 was in other respects still applicable.

But how strictly all this was enforced until the 19th century is hard to say, probably local laws were more effective here, if they needed to be, for example here is an 18th century law with respect to London:


Then when we get to the 19th century the situation is clearer, starting with the Licensing Act, 1833, section 14:


And the Refreshment Houses Act, 1860 section 43:


As as random example of the enforcement of these laws:


Then the all important, and still enforced, 1874 Licensing Act, section 3, which applied to England and Ireland, stipulated that with respect to the 'Hour of closing premises licensed for sale of intoxicating liquors', inter alia:

This is quite a complicated Act though and there are various exemptions, under different headings which give different opening hours, that publicans could apply for via the courts.

By 1924 the complications of the aforementioned Acts had given rise to the situation outlined here by Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins, speaking in the Dail about his new 1924 Act:

So in practice the new Irish state just continued what had always been the case but made the licensing laws much simpler by just banning it outright rather than dancing around with the great complications in the former Acts, about 'bona fide' travellers etc etc. This then was continued on with the 1927 Act and was always the case until now.

As far as I know the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the enactment of any of these laws, albeit maybe at some date they might have expressed their support for them.

Footnotes
1. Danby Pickering, Statutes at large from the first year of King Henry V to the 22nd year of Edward IV inclusive (Cambridge, 1762), vol iii, p.295-296.

2. Leeds Intelligencer 1/4/1777, p.2.

3. Londonderry Sentinel 14/9/1833, p.3.

4. Refreshment Houses (Ireland) Act, 1860, Section 43 .

5. Coleraine Chronicle 29/4/1871, p.4.

6. James Paterson, The Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Acts, 1872, 1874 (London, 1889), p.148-149.

7. Dáil Éireann - 30/May/1924 INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL, 1924. FIRST STAGE. .
But but but.
 

Catalpast

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Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
25,560
Traditionally there had always been some type of prohibition applying in England and Ireland with respect to trade on Good Friday, as an example note this from the 1448 Act of Henry VI:

Four feast days in Summer were exempt from this but on 10/6/1850 this law was revised and those four summer feast day exemptions were removed "and the said Act shall be construed as if such exception were not inserted therein" which shows that the 1448 was in other respects still applicable.

But how strictly all this was enforced until the 19th century is hard to say, probably local laws were more effective here, if they needed to be, for example here is an 18th century law with respect to London:


Then when we get to the 19th century the situation is clearer, starting with the Licensing Act, 1833, section 14:


And the Refreshment Houses Act, 1860 section 43:


As as random example of the enforcement of these laws:


Then the all important, and still enforced, 1874 Licensing Act, section 3, which applied to England and Ireland, stipulated that with respect to the 'Hour of closing premises licensed for sale of intoxicating liquors', inter alia:

This is quite a complicated Act though and there are various exemptions, under different headings which give different opening hours, that publicans could apply for via the courts.

By 1924 the complications of the aforementioned Acts had given rise to the situation outlined here by Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins, speaking in the Dail about his new 1924 Act:

So in practice the new Irish state just continued what had always been the case but made the licensing laws much simpler by just banning it outright rather than dancing around with the great complications in the former Acts, about 'bona fide' travellers etc etc. This then was continued on with the 1927 Act and was always the case until now.

As far as I know the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the enactment of any of these laws, albeit maybe at some date they might have expressed their support for them.

Footnotes
1. Danby Pickering, Statutes at large from the first year of King Henry V to the 22nd year of Edward IV inclusive (Cambridge, 1762), vol iii, p.295-296.

2. Leeds Intelligencer 1/4/1777, p.2.

3. Londonderry Sentinel 14/9/1833, p.3.

4. Refreshment Houses (Ireland) Act, 1860, Section 43 .

5. Coleraine Chronicle 29/4/1871, p.4.

6. James Paterson, The Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Acts, 1872, 1874 (London, 1889), p.148-149.

7. Dáil Éireann - 30/May/1924 INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL, 1924. FIRST STAGE. .
Excellent work SC!

Though it will be hard for some to swallow....:)
 

pro life panda

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Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
137
Dont be fooled and dont drink on good fRIday this was a mistake the goverment will recret
 

gerhard dengler

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Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
46,739
Traditionally there had always been some type of prohibition applying in England and Ireland with respect to trade on Good Friday, as an example note this from the 1448 Act of Henry VI:

Four feast days in Summer were exempt from this but on 10/6/1850 this law was revised and those four summer feast day exemptions were removed "and the said Act shall be construed as if such exception were not inserted therein" which shows that the 1448 was in other respects still applicable.

But how strictly all this was enforced until the 19th century is hard to say, probably local laws were more effective here, if they needed to be, for example here is an 18th century law with respect to London:


Then when we get to the 19th century the situation is clearer, starting with the Licensing Act, 1833, section 14:


And the Refreshment Houses Act, 1860 section 43:


As as random example of the enforcement of these laws:


Then the all important, and still enforced, 1874 Licensing Act, section 3, which applied to England and Ireland, stipulated that with respect to the 'Hour of closing premises licensed for sale of intoxicating liquors', inter alia:

This is quite a complicated Act though and there are various exemptions, under different headings which give different opening hours, that publicans could apply for via the courts.

By 1924 the complications of the aforementioned Acts had given rise to the situation outlined here by Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins, speaking in the Dail about his new 1924 Act:

So in practice the new Irish state just continued what had always been the case but made the licensing laws much simpler by just banning it outright rather than dancing around with the great complications in the former Acts, about 'bona fide' travellers etc etc. This then was continued on with the 1927 Act and was always the case until now.

As far as I know the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the enactment of any of these laws, albeit maybe at some date they might have expressed their support for them.

Footnotes
1. Danby Pickering, Statutes at large from the first year of King Henry V to the 22nd year of Edward IV inclusive (Cambridge, 1762), vol iii, p.295-296.

2. Leeds Intelligencer 1/4/1777, p.2.

3. Londonderry Sentinel 14/9/1833, p.3.

4. Refreshment Houses (Ireland) Act, 1860, Section 43 .

5. Coleraine Chronicle 29/4/1871, p.4.

6. James Paterson, The Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Acts, 1872, 1874 (London, 1889), p.148-149.

7. Dáil Éireann - 30/May/1924 INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL, 1924. FIRST STAGE. .
One of the best OP's posted throughout this site.
 

McTell

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Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
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Twitter
No
What did Jesus say about it?

He would have turned water into wine free of charge for all comers.

But on what was for him not at all a "good" freyas-dag, he was busy hanging with some of his pals.
 

redacted

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Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
2,479
Traditionally there had always been some type of prohibition applying in England and Ireland with respect to trade on Good Friday, as an example note this from the 1448 Act of Henry VI:

Four feast days in Summer were exempt from this but on 10/6/1850 this law was revised and those four summer feast day exemptions were removed "and the said Act shall be construed as if such exception were not inserted therein" which shows that the 1448 was in other respects still applicable.

But how strictly all this was enforced until the 19th century is hard to say, probably local laws were more effective here, if they needed to be, for example here is an 18th century law with respect to London:


Then when we get to the 19th century the situation is clearer, starting with the Licensing Act, 1833, section 14:


And the Refreshment Houses Act, 1860 section 43:


As as random example of the enforcement of these laws:


Then the all important, and still enforced, 1874 Licensing Act, section 3, which applied to England and Ireland, stipulated that with respect to the 'Hour of closing premises licensed for sale of intoxicating liquors', inter alia:

This is quite a complicated Act though and there are various exemptions, under different headings which give different opening hours, that publicans could apply for via the courts.

By 1924 the complications of the aforementioned Acts had given rise to the situation outlined here by Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins, speaking in the Dail about his new 1924 Act:

So in practice the new Irish state just continued what had always been the case but made the licensing laws much simpler by just banning it outright rather than dancing around with the great complications in the former Acts, about 'bona fide' travellers etc etc. This then was continued on with the 1927 Act and was always the case until now.

As far as I know the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the enactment of any of these laws, albeit maybe at some date they might have expressed their support for them.

Footnotes
1. Danby Pickering, Statutes at large from the first year of King Henry V to the 22nd year of Edward IV inclusive (Cambridge, 1762), vol iii, p.295-296.

2. Leeds Intelligencer 1/4/1777, p.2.

3. Londonderry Sentinel 14/9/1833, p.3.

4. Refreshment Houses (Ireland) Act, 1860, Section 43 .

5. Coleraine Chronicle 29/4/1871, p.4.

6. James Paterson, The Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Acts, 1872, 1874 (London, 1889), p.148-149.

7. Dáil Éireann - 30/May/1924 INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL, 1924. FIRST STAGE. .
And thankfully consigned to history now. Religious prohibition has no role in civic society.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
9,208
Dont be fooled and dont drink on good fRIday this was a mistake the goverment will recret
Yeah, the people will crush them for this. They will ignore homelessness and Garda corruption, economic inequality and the health service. Thanks for playing.
 

scolairebocht

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Sep 29, 2006
Messages
907
Many thanks Gerhard and everybody who liked it, but it struck me anyway that a similar history could be made of abortion laws in Ireland.

Don't forget that abortion has been illegal in Ireland for as long as historical sources are extant, and by no means could you say that the Catholic Church has always been powerful in Ireland. For example a Victorian law banning abortion was the current law in Ireland North and South until very recently, and nobody seriously suggests that the Catholic Church had much influence on the the UK-and-Ireland-wide laws of the mid Victorian period.

The fact is that these laws have stood the test of time because they make sense, by protecting the unborn they tally with people's natural sense of humanity, and a nurtured anti-Catholic hatred is only blinding some people to that simple truth.
 

Emily Davison

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Jun 9, 2013
Messages
31,031
Traditionally there had always been some type of prohibition applying in England and Ireland with respect to trade on Good Friday, as an example note this from the 1448 Act of Henry VI:

Four feast days in Summer were exempt from this but on 10/6/1850 this law was revised and those four summer feast day exemptions were removed "and the said Act shall be construed as if such exception were not inserted therein" which shows that the 1448 was in other respects still applicable.

But how strictly all this was enforced until the 19th century is hard to say, probably local laws were more effective here, if they needed to be, for example here is an 18th century law with respect to London:


Then when we get to the 19th century the situation is clearer, starting with the Licensing Act, 1833, section 14:


And the Refreshment Houses Act, 1860 section 43:


As as random example of the enforcement of these laws:


Then the all important, and still enforced, 1874 Licensing Act, section 3, which applied to England and Ireland, stipulated that with respect to the 'Hour of closing premises licensed for sale of intoxicating liquors', inter alia:

This is quite a complicated Act though and there are various exemptions, under different headings which give different opening hours, that publicans could apply for via the courts.

By 1924 the complications of the aforementioned Acts had given rise to the situation outlined here by Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins, speaking in the Dail about his new 1924 Act:

So in practice the new Irish state just continued what had always been the case but made the licensing laws much simpler by just banning it outright rather than dancing around with the great complications in the former Acts, about 'bona fide' travellers etc etc. This then was continued on with the 1927 Act and was always the case until now.

As far as I know the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the enactment of any of these laws, albeit maybe at some date they might have expressed their support for them.

Footnotes
1. Danby Pickering, Statutes at large from the first year of King Henry V to the 22nd year of Edward IV inclusive (Cambridge, 1762), vol iii, p.295-296.

2. Leeds Intelligencer 1/4/1777, p.2.

3. Londonderry Sentinel 14/9/1833, p.3.

4. Refreshment Houses (Ireland) Act, 1860, Section 43 .

5. Coleraine Chronicle 29/4/1871, p.4.

6. James Paterson, The Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Acts, 1872, 1874 (London, 1889), p.148-149.

7. Dáil Éireann - 30/May/1924 INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL, 1924. FIRST STAGE. .
Explain the holy hour to us please.

When you've done that, explain the term 'good Friday' and what it means in Ireland..
 

scolairebocht

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I am sure they do some online courses in theology somewhere!!!
Failing that have you tried your local priest?

I am not trying to be smart actually, I often think all the anti-Catholic critics on here would do a better job if they studied up on theology so they could hit home with some good points and not criticse the Catholic Church for what it didn't do all the time!
 
D

Deleted member 45466

I am sure they do some online courses in theology somewhere!!!
Failing that have you tried your local priest?

I am not trying to be smart actually, I often think all the anti-Catholic critics on here would do a better job if they studied up on theology so they could hit home with some good points and not criticse the Catholic Church for what it didn't do all the time!
Then they could vent spleen, aye?

Veritas vos Liberabit.
 

scolairebocht

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907
Well at least we'd have a more intelligent debate? Its like been at a physics lecture and half the class are constantly sneering that they are supposed to believe that a thing as small as an atom could blow up a city if crushed!

Its like they want to talk theology all the time but are allergic to finding out anything substantial about it!
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Well at least we'd have a more intelligent debate? Its like been at a physics lecture and half the class are constantly sneering that they are supposed to believe that a thing as small as an atom could blow up a city if crushed!

Its like they want to talk theology all the time but are allergic to finding out anything substantial about it!
True, although this forum does provide some with a wealth of data on the psychology of the immobile vulgus (see what I did there?).

Gustav Le Bon's words come to mind:

"Whoever can supply them with illusions is their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is their victim."
 

scolairebocht

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Messages
907
Anyway I don't mean to be rude, I know many people are busy and so its hard to read up on all this stuff. Therefore maybe its easier just to listen to youbue videos on theology. You could look up Fr Chad Ripperger as an example of a theologian who isn't so academic that he is impossible to follow but nonetheless goes in to things in quite a deep way, like here talking about prayer:
[video=youtube;duSLwd1wd9c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duSLwd1wd9c[/video]
 

The Field Marshal

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Messages
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Explain the holy hour to us please.

When you've done that, explain the term 'good Friday' and what it means in Ireland..
Your imperious and haughty tone does not come across as somebody who is one bit deserving of explanations about anything anywhere.
 
Last edited:

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I am sure they do some online courses in theology somewhere!!!
Failing that have you tried your local priest?

I am not trying to be smart actually, I often think all the anti-Catholic critics on here would do a better job if they studied up on theology so they could hit home with some good points and not criticse the Catholic Church for what it didn't do all the time!
Personally I read up on catholicism and the origins of xtianity extensively some years ago when I first came across its delicious nuttiness in Ireland. And since then I've found there is nothing more annoying to a member of the O'Taliban than a knowledgeable atheist.

It is great fun. Boy do the O'Taliban hate it when you can fill them in on some of its more lunatic history and be able to explain the psychology involved.

Drives 'em mad.
 


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