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History Will Be Kind To Dev!


General Urko

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Perhaps overly fair! I think on balance it has been with few exceptions obviously his vist to the German embassy after Hitler's suicide to offer condolences (He detested the American representative here) and that he stayed in power far to long are some of the main justifiable criticisms!
The man was not brown Mickey McQuaid's lap dog and did not have a sectarian atom in his being.
He founded the most formidable political party in Europe, which later became the criminal organisation styling itself as Fianna Fail - The Republican party.
He kept us out of that bit of devilment in Europe between 39-45. he was ultimately the great Free Stater. he was also a Republican, unlikemany Eff Effers who came after him.
 

drummed

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You don't get the whole writing OP's thing do you?
 

Jezza

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Perhaps overly fair! I think on balance it has been with few exceptions obviously his vist to the German embassy after Hitler's suicide to offer condolences (He detested the American representative here) and that he stayed in power far to long are some of the main justifiable criticisms!
The man was not brown Mickey McQuaid's lap dog and did not have a sectarian atom in his being.
He founded the most formidable political party in Europe, which later became the criminal organisation styling itself as Fianna Fail - The Republican party.
He kept us out of that bit of devilment in Europe between 39-45. he was ultimately the great Free Stater. he was also a Republican, unlikemany Eff Effers who came after him.
-He was just being anal about correct diplomatic protocol when Hitler died. Easy to critisise with hindsight, but he was not a Nazi and it is drivel to suggest otherwise.

-His comment about the dismissed Protestant Librarian was, to my mind, worse than anything Paisley ever said, because there was no reason for it other than utter sectarianism.

-He founded the GOP of a minor, and politically bizzare European nation. So what?

-His political longevity says as much about the paucity of his contemporaries as it does about him.

-A great free Stater, and a Republican? Don tin helmet time!
 

titmouse

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I think that 50 or 100 years from now, whenever Ireland has caught up with the rest of western Europe economically and in terms of social issues, people will see him as the man who kept the country back and impoverished it with his warped romantic philosophies.
 

Astral Peaks

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Worst thing to be said about Dev, in a long list, is that he was an economic nincompoop who did more damage to the emerging State that was thought humanly possible.
 

General Urko

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You don't get the whole writing OP's thing do you?
I don't get your point! There are very few if any more significant characters in Irish political history than De Valera and how history views him is very important!! He is more significant (whatever you may think of him) than O'Connell, Parnell, Grattan, Wolfe Tone, the other rising leaders and Collins!
 

Devil Eire

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De Valera created a monster. A monster that ultimately went on to do more damage and division to this country than any other single thing in the history of the state. How much of that damage can be attributed to de Valera personally is arguable. But nonetheless he masterminded the Fianna Fáil party, and set a large part of the tone of that party through his own beliefs and outlooks. That others after him went on to further destroy this country doesn't take away from his own responsibility.

Of course there is a balanced argument to be made, but all things considered, it would have been a very good thing if Fianna Fáil, and some of the people who populated it, had never happened at all. This country never managed, in ninety years, to find a cohesive direction for itself, and to grow itself sustainably. Those people who were in power for the larger part of that period of time, bear most of the blame. And de Valera was an architect among them.
 

drummed

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I don't get your point! There are very few if any more significant characters in Irish political history than De Valera and how history views him is very important!! He is more significant (whatever you may think of him) than O'Connell, Parnell, Grattan, Wolfe Tone, the other rising leaders and Collins!
Genuinely, are you drunk?:)
 

cricket

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Put that sherry bottle down and off to bed with you !
 

General Urko

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Analyzer

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Dev got a lot of criticism when he was in power, and many of his opponents simply turned nasty in his long terms of office.

He was cleaner and more honest than any FF leader since. And more serious about public duty and responsibility than many FG Taoisigh, like Cosgrave 2, or Bruton.

I remember Dessie O'Malley talking on the radio about how, when Dev was in his final years he would summon Donagh O'Malley and George Colley. He would lecture them on the need to stop the self-promoting arsehole CJH. Frank Aiken was also detestful of CJH.

Both DeValera and Aiken, very old feeble men at that time, were extremely unimpressed with the young ambitious super confident pup CJ.

If only they managed to destroy his career.
 

SPN

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lying eyes

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Worst thing to be said about Dev, in a long list, is that he was an economic nincompoop who did more damage to the emerging State that was thought humanly possible.
Well, well, the crowd who came after him, continued his policy and returned us to penuary.......
 

mhagain

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I think that 50 or 100 years from now, whenever Ireland has caught up with the rest of western Europe economically and in terms of social issues, people will see him as the man who kept the country back and impoverished it with his warped romantic philosophies.
For a lot of us that's already happened.

But oh! if only his legacy had been confined to something so innocent.
 

Catalpast

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Dev was streets ahead of any other Leader we ever had

Not to say there were no others but he was the best

Please remember he was not in Power continually from 1918!!!
 

Shpake

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Dev: Independnece sound on that, Keeping Ireland out of the war: Grand, in contrast Belfast got the ************************ bombed out of it.
Economy: Well more than one million emigrated from the state since its foundation so for all the Irish freedom they got you can kiss my a.
Catholicism. No objection to him getting into bed with McQuaid and the RCC but to have all those poor children buggered... that's a national shame -- strikes me that one tyranny replaced another.
Corruption... they say that he pocketed a lot of the moneys of the Irish press... so first in a long line of them.
But his party FF have moved with the times: compromise on the north, relativising the importance of catholicism in the state... but a shame they were so slow. Still they have been the party in power for so long... like the Christian Democrats of Italy... they have (or had) this aura of being the party in power... the natural party. Course they blew it in the naughties.
(looking at it since 1922: shame they were so backward)
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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this
Profile of the Sociopath

- known to have cowered in the face of some battles. He let other men do the fighting for him.
- his backstabbing of Collins for personal gain
- Wrapping himself in the Flag/Church even though he had so much blood on his hands.
- More of a monarch than a Republican - ( violent, theocratic, totalitarian, power as his birthright )
- rural, backward bogman
- kowtowing to the clergy
- claiming to seek a united ireland yet hesitating when Churchill offered it to Dev if he supported the UK in world war two. Knowing full well he couldnt handle the ulster unionists, he was happy to be a paper tiger who made a career of posturing for political effect.
 
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oggy

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You are saying I am a member of a criminal organisation. Thats a stupid thing to say unless you have evidence. Care to produce that evidence ?
 
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