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homelessness


dedalus

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
5
I was reading in the paper about a homeless person begging, who was a post -graduate; police tried to criminalise him by prosecuting him for holding a plastic cup out to the people passing by. He brought his case to the high court and won! There's nothing better than a homeless, educated person who has the resolution to fight the system and win. I would definitely put a few bob in his cup, for he richly deserves it, don you think?
 

jady88

Active member
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
130
dedalus said:
I was reading in the paper about a homeless person begging, who was a post -graduate; police tried to criminalise him by prosecuting him for holding a plastic cup out to the people passing by. He brought his case to the high court and won! There's nothing better than a homeless, educated person who has the resolution to fight the system and win. I would definitely put a few bob in his cup, for he richly deserves it, don you think?
No why is a post graduate begging? That is outrageous he has no reason to be homeless why should other people support his choice to be destitute?
 

GJG

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Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,111
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
jady88 said:
dedalus said:
I was reading in the paper about a homeless person begging, who was a post -graduate; police tried to criminalise him by prosecuting him for holding a plastic cup out to the people passing by. He brought his case to the high court and won! There's nothing better than a homeless, educated person who has the resolution to fight the system and win. I would definitely put a few bob in his cup, for he richly deserves it, don you think?
No why is a post graduate begging? That is outrageous he has no reason to be homeless why should other people support his choice to be destitute?
I know nothing about this guy but it is possible that he was mentally ill, as are a high proportion of people living on the streets of our cities. While poverty from lack of employment opportunities has largely gone from Ireland, for people who have mental health problems, even temporarily, the services are so poor that they can lose their jobs, their housing and all connection with society. Frequently these are the people who get left in the trap of homelessness and begging.

The legal point - that any person has the right to approach another - was correct, and I am delighted that our judges have for once stuck up for what is right, even when it's not convenient. It is vital for democracy that judges faced with a choice between what is right and what is popular (with the government or society) choose what is right. I only wish they had the courage of some of the judges standing up to Mugabe.

I actually don't agree with begging, or giving to beggars, and I would support long prison sentences for inciting children to beg, or for aggressive or abusive behaviour while begging. But if chuggers or market-research people can walk up to me every thirty seconds on Grafton Street, then it is clearly unconstitutional to ban someone from doing it just because they are a bit smelly.
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
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10,301
dedalus said:
I was reading in the paper about a homeless person begging, who was a post -graduate; police tried to criminalise him by prosecuting him for holding a plastic cup out to the people passing by. He brought his case to the high court and won! There's nothing better than a homeless, educated person who has the resolution to fight the system and win. I would definitely put a few bob in his cup, for he richly deserves it, don you think?
Yeah he would deserve it for taking you for a ride! :p
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
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10,301
Oh BTW are the Roma who beg on our streets mentally ill? Homeless? Drunk? On Drugs?

Answer to all of the above is NO THEY ARE NOT! :x

This decision to accept that stopping someone begging interferes with their Constitutional rights is absolutely Daft and shows how out of touch the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd are with the common citizen.

TBH I think they should cop themselves on... :roll:
 

beardyboy

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Feb 12, 2007
Messages
207
There but for the grace of God go I
 

Catalpa

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ibis said:
Catalpa said:
beardyboy said:
There but for the grace of God go I
What like ya nearly ended up a Roma? :p
Or a racist?
Twice in one day! :roll:

So now its 'Racist' to oppose the idea of people arriving here from abroad and having the freedom to roam the streets begging?

I think anyone who supports such a policy (like you appear to) would be a Racist.

So are you?

BTW I am against the legalisation of begging by anyone - not just members of the Roma People.
 

Bogwarrior

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Nov 3, 2004
Messages
322
I would only help out beggars who are physically disabled or elderly, or if I was in a country with no social welfare.
 

Engels

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Jan 7, 2006
Messages
25
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www.socialistparty.net
Catalpa said:
ibis said:
Catalpa said:
beardyboy said:
There but for the grace of God go I
What like ya nearly ended up a Roma? :p
Or a racist?
Twice in one day! :roll:

So now its 'Racist' to oppose the idea of people arriving here from abroad and having the freedom to roam the streets begging?

I think anyone who supports such a policy (like you appear to) would be a Racist.

So are you?

BTW I am against the legalisation of begging by anyone - not just members of the Roma People.
Why introduce the specific issue of Roma then - you betray your real attitudes consistently on these issues. You are at best xenophobic and at worst racist
 

Conor

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Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,206
Catalpa said:
This decision to accept that stopping someone begging interferes with their Constitutional rights is absolutely Daft and shows how out of touch the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd are with the common citizen.

TBH I think they should cop themselves on... :roll:
When you refer to "the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd", do you mean the High Court?
 

smiffy

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Catalpa said:
This decision to accept that stopping someone begging interferes with their Constitutional rights is absolutely Daft and shows how out of touch the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd are with the common citizen.
Really? Which part of the judgement do you take issue with, and what's the constitutional basis of your objection?
 

Catalpa

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10,301
Engels said:
Catalpa said:
ibis said:
Catalpa said:
beardyboy said:
There but for the grace of God go I
What like ya nearly ended up a Roma? :p
Or a racist?
Twice in one day! :roll:

So now its 'Racist' to oppose the idea of people arriving here from abroad and having the freedom to roam the streets begging?

I think anyone who supports such a policy (like you appear to) would be a Racist.

So are you?

BTW I am against the legalisation of begging by anyone - not just members of the Roma People.
Why introduce the specific issue of Roma then - you betray your real attitudes consistently on these issues. You are at best xenophobic and at worst racist
The reason I introduced the Roma was because they constitute the bulk of those begging in Dublin City Centre.

As word spreads of the HC decision expect to see a lot more beggars on our streets!

And not just in Dublin. :?
 

DOD

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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
643
Question, how is a person begging negatively impacting on anyone elses life. I don't give to beggars generally, I used to feel guilty about it, but my stint working in this area has diminished my feeling of guilt as I know the whole issue is far more complicated than I previously thought. However, people should have the right to beg if they so wish.
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
smiffy said:
Catalpa said:
This decision to accept that stopping someone begging interferes with their Constitutional rights is absolutely Daft and shows how out of touch the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd are with the common citizen.
Really? Which part of the judgement do you take issue with, and what's the constitutional basis of your objection?
see:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaki ... king47.htm
 

Ireland2007

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Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
82
Although I'm not one who would normally tar all with the one brush I don't give any money to beggars now since one asked my friend for money (who rustled around in his pockets and give him all his change which wasn't much but still) and the beggar pushed him and demanded more. The gobshite.
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
Conor said:
Catalpa said:
This decision to accept that stopping someone begging interferes with their Constitutional rights is absolutely Daft and shows how out of touch the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd are with the common citizen.

TBH I think they should cop themselves on... :roll:
When you refer to "the so called 'Civil liberties' crowd", do you mean the High Court?
This particular judge anyway.

Surely this should be a matter for the Supreme Court to decide?
 

factual

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Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,761
Interesting discussion and I am in support of those who think that people can be allowed to beg but that of course the begging should not be aggressive.

In this we need to ensure that our social secutiry system operates so that those who are deprived or in genuine need do not need to beg.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
643
factual said:
In this we need to ensure that our social secutiry system operates so that those who are deprived or in genuine need do not need to beg.
Agreed, however, the fact that groups like Simon and Focus have to exist at all is a sign of the state's failure to provide.
 
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