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House ownership now at 1950s levels, renting up 50% and 40% of Dublin house purchases are for CASH,


Lassie

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Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
2,150
Speaking at the National Construction Conference in Dublin Lorcan Sirr,lecturer in the school of real estate and construction economics at Dublin Institute of Technology.gave a presentation of research which shows how the Irish property sector has fundamentally changed in a short space of time. House ownership has dropped dramatically to below 70% with the number of people renting now above 30% which is an increase of 50% since the end of the Celtic Tiger.

While house prices in Dublin are slowing rising the overall trend is still downwards.
Not taken into account by the CSO is that a whopping 40% of Dublin based house purchases are CASH purchases.

IMHO based on this report some people out there have money for these things are are creaming off and raking it in on the rents.

House ownership at 1950s levels, study shows | Irish Examiner
 

BodyPolathick

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Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
625
Speaking at the National Construction Conference in Dublin Lorcan Sirr,lecturer in the school of real estate and construction economics at Dublin Institute of Technology.gave a presentation of research which shows how the Irish property sector has fundamentally changed in a short space of time. House ownership has dropped dramatically to below 70% with the number of people renting now above 30% which is an increase of 50% since the end of the Celtic Tiger.

While house prices in Dublin are slowing rising the overall trend is still downwards.
Not taken into account by the CSO is that a whopping 40% of Dublin based house purchases are CASH purchases.

IMHO based on this report some people out there have money for these things are are creaming off and raking it in on the rents.

House ownership at 1950s levels, study shows | Irish Examiner
This type of presentation is pointless and does not address the real issues.

1. No change in the housing policy will come from Kildare Street because too many politicians have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

2. The abolition of mortgage interest relief is because

1. We can’t afford it
2. To create a mini bubble in the existing stock before its abolished to demonstrate the economy has turned a corner (why property prices are used as a barometer I don’t know, why don’t we use our manufacturing industry instead…..oh wait we don’t have one too busy building houses)

Given the property register is only weeks old and only provides the sale price, how do they know 40% of purchases are for cash, more PR spin from the “professionals”

There is no change in the country’s housing policy and this research going by your link proves nothing because the real issues are not addressed. There is a lack of adequate family accommodation because government policy enabled the creation of apartments, when people queried why do we need apartments they were told by the property experts that is the way they do it in Europe we need to modernise, now we don’t have enough adequate Family accommodate and the market is the problem.

Far too many of the property academics and professionals speak out of both sides of their mouths it’s no wonder so many haven’t a clue what they are talking about.

The demographic who are most likely to purchase property are queuing up at expos to get out of the country.

Those lucky enough to be in employment are on reduced salary still too low to purchase a property despite the collapse in prices.

Banks do not have the capital to lend so a combination of restricted funds, no employment opportunities, zero certainty in the economy in the medium term and too many houses are the reasons why people are renting.

Certainly renting has its advantages, but so too has home ownership; leaving aside previous Government policy to increase home ownership. How many pensioners could afford to pay a monthly rent of €800-1400 on a State pension?
 

Clanrickard

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Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,038
2. To create a mini bubble in the existing stock before its abolished to demonstrate the economy has turned a corner (why property prices are used as a barometer I don’t know, why don’t we use our manufacturing industry instead…..oh wait we don’t have one too busy building houses)
Most succinct point made all day. Spot on my dear boy.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,184
The only "Market" that exists at the moment is the rental market.

There is a glut of houses/apartments in bad areas/bad "developments".

Given paranoia about pyrite / unsafe apartment blocks / bankrupt developers not honouring home bond, what we have is analogous to a used car dealer with a yard full of Alfa Romeos Fiats and Renaults whilst VW's and Toyotas are being held onto / sold within days.

There is a shortage of "middle of the road" family homes in good areas. Those that come up are snapped up. Those that stay on the market are overpriced.
 

Dublin 4

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Feb 6, 2011
Messages
12,993
Those that come up are snapped up. Those that stay on the market are overpriced.
These are from Dun Laoghaire - not much snappin there Vic, some of them go back to '10 & '11, all are dropping... :oops:

14 Daft.ie house price drops & rises, in Co. Dublin using : "Dun Laoghaire", between May 20, 2011 and Oct 25, 2012.
On page: 1
Link  Type  Address  On Market Since  Description  Beds  Total Prices  Previous Price  Current Price  % From Previous  % From First  Last Change Detected 
1 670959 Apartment For Sale Apt. 24 The Pavilion, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Sep 15, 2012 2 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom 2 2 €355,000 €300,000 -15.49% -15.49% Oct 24, 2012
2 666110 Detached House Royal Terrace House, Royal Terrace, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Aug 15, 2012 5 Bedrooms, 4 Bathrooms 5 2 €1,450,000 €1,395,000 -3.79% -3.79% Oct 17, 2012
3 666919 Apartment For Sale Davesci House, Monkstown Crescent, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Aug 21, 2012 2 Bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms 2 2 €260,000 €249,950 -3.87% -3.87% Sep 26, 2012
4 335700 Apartment For Sale Penthouse Apt Granitefield Manor, The Gallan At Granitefield Manor, Rochestown A, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin Jan 14, 2008 2 Bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms 2 4 €349,000 €300,000 -14.04% 0% Sep 26, 2012
5 644340 Apartment For Sale Adelphi House, Georges Street Upper, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Mar 27, 2012 1 Bedroom, 1 Bathroom 1 4 €215,000 €199,500 -7.21% -16.88% Sep 22, 2012
6 663916 Semi-Detached House 1 Hillview Drive, Off Pottery Road, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Jul 27, 2012 2 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom 2 2 €319,950 €299,950 -6.25% -6.25% Sep 1, 2012
7 652267 Semi-Detached House 11 Wellington Street, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin May 15, 2012 3 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom 3 2 €380,000 €330,000 -13.16% -13.16% Aug 11, 2012
8 564912 Apartment For Sale Adelphi House, Upper Georges Street, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin Nov 3, 2010 2 Bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms 2 3 €350,000 €330,000 -5.71% -16.46% Jul 7, 2012
9 622733 Terraced House 20 Wellington Street, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin Oct 21, 2011 3 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom 3 3 €200,000 €195,000 -2.5% -9.3% Jun 16, 2012
10 644176 Apartment For Sale 1 Eaglewood Mews, Rochestown Avenue, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Mar 27, 2012 2 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom 2 3 €275,000 €250,000 -9.09% -16.67% May 30, 2012
11 591950 Detached House 1 Grangewood Court, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin May 13, 2011 4 Bedrooms 4 3 €495,000 €475,000 -4.04% -12.84% Apr 4, 2012
12 635112 Detached House 89 Rochestown Avenue, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin Jan 30, 2012 4 Bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms 4 2 €435,000 €395,000 -9.2% -9.2% Mar 10, 2012
13 613507 Apartment For Sale The Pavilion, Marine Road, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin Aug 29, 2011 2 Bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms 2 2 P.O.A. €400,000 0% 0% Feb 1, 2012
14 578895 Terraced House 22 Clarinda Park East, Dun Laoghaire, South Co. Dublin Feb 22, 2011 10 Bedrooms, 10 Bathrooms 10 2 €685,000 €595,000 -13.14% -13.14% Sep 21, 2011
DaftDrop: The Irish house, apartment & site price history tracker.
 

Aindriu

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Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
You forgot to add the main issue with renting being that renters have effectively NO legal protection meaning that they can be dumped on the streets with just 4 weeks notice for extremely dubious reasons. As a renter myself I can truly state that we renters need legally guaranteed protection of tenure. The current lease used here is not worth the paper it is printed on legally as far as the tenant is concerned.
This type of presentation is pointless and does not address the real issues.

1. No change in the housing policy will come from Kildare Street because too many politicians have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

2. The abolition of mortgage interest relief is because

1. We can’t afford it
2. To create a mini bubble in the existing stock before its abolished to demonstrate the economy has turned a corner (why property prices are used as a barometer I don’t know, why don’t we use our manufacturing industry instead…..oh wait we don’t have one too busy building houses)

Given the property register is only weeks old and only provides the sale price, how do they know 40% of purchases are for cash, more PR spin from the “professionals”

There is no change in the country’s housing policy and this research going by your link proves nothing because the real issues are not addressed. There is a lack of adequate family accommodation because government policy enabled the creation of apartments, when people queried why do we need apartments they were told by the property experts that is the way they do it in Europe we need to modernise, now we don’t have enough adequate Family accommodate and the market is the problem.

Far too many of the property academics and professionals speak out of both sides of their mouths it’s no wonder so many haven’t a clue what they are talking about.

The demographic who are most likely to purchase property are queuing up at expos to get out of the country.

Those lucky enough to be in employment are on reduced salary still too low to purchase a property despite the collapse in prices.

Banks do not have the capital to lend so a combination of restricted funds, no employment opportunities, zero certainty in the economy in the medium term and too many houses are the reasons why people are renting.

Certainly renting has its advantages, but so too has home ownership; leaving aside previous Government policy to increase home ownership. How many pensioners could afford to pay a monthly rent of €800-1400 on a State pension?
 
S

simeongrimes

You forgot to add the main issue with renting being that renters have effectively NO legal protection meaning that they can be dumped on the streets with just 4 weeks notice for extremely dubious reasons. As a renter myself I can truly state that we renters need legally guaranteed protection of tenure. The current lease used here is not worth the paper it is printed on legally as far as the tenant is concerned.
Our inability to act collectively comes against us again. If people who were renting demanded change they would get it. But too many of them think they will buy eventually so they have no interest in making life better for themselves as tenants. Besides Mammy would be mortified if they were seen agitating for rent reform.

In the Ireland of 2012 it is much easier for parents to accept gay children then children over 40 who don't own property. But with a bit of organisation renting would become the sane option.
 

Mountaintop

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Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
1,263
I read that, and in the absence of data to support what she says, I don't believe her.
Ah....you poor cynic, questioning what you read on the internet!! Wait until I mail my friend in Nigeria about ya. He's a Prince you know.
 

BodyPolathick

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
625
You forgot to add the main issue with renting being that renters have effectively NO legal protection meaning that they can be dumped on the streets with just 4 weeks notice for extremely dubious reasons. As a renter myself I can truly state that we renters need legally guaranteed protection of tenure. The current lease used here is not worth the paper it is printed on legally as far as the tenant is concerned.
As a renter I fully agree with you, I also believe rents should be fixed for a number of years (10-20) and adjust up or down with inflation.

This I believe would make the labour force more competitive in pay terms as they have certainty for a basic need in a developed country, it would also reduce land costs thus reducing the cost of owning a home, some people will still buy but at least they would have a very viable alternative but it will not suit the lackeys in the CIF, so I won't hold my breath
 

gerhard dengler

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Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,554
Good OP.

It probably adds to our sum of knowledge about what is going on in the property market at the moment.

I've no doubt there are some who wish to see the value of properties begin to increase not least because they're badly caught in negative equity as a result of the Irish property collapse.
There are others who think that rising property values would be a sign of Irish economic virility.

I've notices three properties where I come from in Dublin which were on the market for the best part of the last 12-24 months that have since sold in the last few weeks.
Is this a sign of renewed property activity?
Or has the seller just dropped the price to a level to get rid of the property?

I know that one of the properties that was sold had been bought in 2007. I'd hate to think of the loss on that property.

The rise in the number of people renting could be a number of issues.
It could be people holding off purchasing a home in the hope that prices will drop and deciding to deliberately rent in the meantime.
It could also be people renting out their property because they can't afford to "owner/occupy" their home any longer.
 

Dame_Enda

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Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,065
Well I have an apartment but I'm looking at selling and using the money to rent out a house because the former is so dark and claustrophobic and beset by anti-social behaviour in the past. I would prefer to use the proceeds to buy a house but sellers still have Celtic Tiger-expectations (especially in rural areas) for asking price. For example a woman whose house is up for sale in rural Co.Wexford who I visited recently to view the house wants €240,000 for it. :roll:
 
G

Gimpanzee

Well I have an apartment but I'm looking at selling and using the money to rent out a house because the former is so dark and claustrophobic and beset by anti-social behaviour in the past. I would prefer to use the proceeds to buy a house but sellers still have Celtic Tiger-expectations (especially in rural areas) for asking price. For example a woman whose house is up for sale in rural Co.Wexford who I visited recently to view the house wants €240,000 for it. :roll:
Run off a print out of sales in Wexford from the property price register and ask her if she'll reconsider.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,184
These are from Dun Laoghaire - not much snappin there Vic, some of them go back to '10 & '11, all are dropping... :oops:
a lot of apartments there. Apartments are toxic for reasons I have outlined.

And then there is the reality of Dun Laoghaire. There are some nice small pockets, but mostly, the place is a junkie ridden kip with huge problems. It is not "Leafy" by any means..
 
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