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House prices


MacCoise

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
102
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0228/housing.html

House prices for first-time buyers now average over 250,000€.

Headline economic growth is all fine and well, but whats the point if young people (and all people) are being priced out of owning a house?

The long-term social implications are worrying too with the likelihood of there being an even more extreme situation of a small, wealthy group who can afford propoerty and an ever larger number who cannot.
 

bobbysands81

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
947
It'll cause a continued increase in rent and perhaps lead to a crash in the market.

If people cannot enter a market then that market is unsustainable. A good idea would be to introduce a tax for people who own more than one house to try and make it a less profitable thing to do thus increasing the amount of houses on the market thus forcing prices down.

However, as we have concistently seen FF are in the back pocket of so many builders that they are unlikely to do this, profit before people is their mantra.
 

Quant

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
14
I definitely think the long-term implications for society are bein ignored; it's not healthy or natural to force 2 parents to abandon their children daily so as they can commute long distances to pay a ridiculous mortgage. High house prices are also contributing to couples choosing to have smaller families, and starting a family later in life. Gardai, nurses and teachers are all being penalised, and teachers in particular are living very far from the community in which they teach.
 

zakalwe

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Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
i agree with most of the sentiments expressed above.

i'm in my late 20's and bought a house with my brother. we are stretched to the pin of our collars to pay back the mortgage and the expenses of renovating etc. we rent rooms out on the rent a room relief but are fixed to a certain amount to charge (way below market rate for the rooms) because if we charge a penny over the threshold we pay 48c to the euro on the whole lot. i mean, i earn a very good salary but with repayment of loans etc i pay 2/3s of my take home pay to parents and financial institutions. heaven forbid that we sprung a leak or something we would be fecked to pay to repair it.
 

Libero

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Joined
May 22, 2004
Messages
3,000
zakalwe said:
i agree with most of the sentiments expressed above.

i'm in my late 20's and bought a house with my brother. we are stretched to the pin of our collars to pay back the mortgage and the expenses of renovating etc. we rent rooms out on the rent a room relief but are fixed to a certain amount to charge (way below market rate for the rooms) because if we charge a penny over the threshold we pay 48c to the euro on the whole lot. i mean, i earn a very good salary but with repayment of loans etc i pay 2/3s of my take home pay to parents and financial institutions. heaven forbid that we sprung a leak or something we would be fecked to pay to repair it.
Calculators are a wonderful thing.

MacCoise said:
Headline economic growth is all fine and well, but whats the point if young people (and all people) are being priced out of owning a house?
But not all young people are priced out. Apart from those who are buying (and they do exist), there are those, like me, who refuse to purchase in an irrational runaway market.

It's not much fun worrying if you are missing the boat, but still more fun than straining to pay a ridiculous mortgage in an era when the only way for interest rates is up.

And you won't get much sympathy from me when repayments bite. It was always your own choice to take the plunge and risk both the downsides and rewards.

As for bringing prices down, no major political party seriously wants to do that. Though FF are in the pockets of builders, the simple political arithmetic is that there are far more houseowners than would-be first-time houseowners.

The real question is how do we build ever more units without wrecking our environment, and what can any government do when faced by a populace that is happy to bid each other up to inflated property prices?
 

DSCH

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Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
246
We need a massive deflationary crash to punnish those who helped to fuel the boom and reward those who remained prudent!
 

Libero

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Joined
May 22, 2004
Messages
3,000
DSCH said:
We need a massive deflationary crash to punnish those who helped to fuel the boom and reward those who remained prudent!
Those who remained prudent won't be rewarded, other than through schadenfreude and the chance to buy property at more reasonable prices.

And the prudent will suffer along with everyone else as our banking sector shrivels up, business suffers, unemployment rises, budget deficits roar back, and anti-commerce politics sees a rise in support as a reaction.

A serious property price crash will be a very ugly thing for everyone in Ireland.

What's worse is that those who have profited the most from the boom, the builders and the bankers, already have their money in the bank or parked in property offshore.
 

DSCH

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
246
Those who remained prudent won't be rewarded, other than through schadenfreude and the chance to buy property at more reasonable prices.
Where would politics be without schadenfreude?

And the prudent will suffer along with everyone else as our banking sector shrivels up, business suffers, unemployment rises, budget deficits roar back, and anti-commerce politics sees a rise in support as a reaction.
This is the sort of stuff that made the 20th century the most interesting of times. Dont you want to live through a thrilling historical epoch?
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
Calculators are a wonderful thing.
calculators do not fix leaks!

or are you inferring that i should have used my calculator and devised a scheme whereby i do not pay huge amounts of money to the bank et al by living at home till i'm 35?

i'm on my own two feet, paying my way and being a productive member of society. i'm entitled to feel a little grumpy now and again when 2,000 leaves my account to pay loans etc.
 

david

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
190
I do read some odd stuff:

Holiday Homes

That getaway bijou holiday home in Achill or Innishowen or West Cork
will become even more of a mill stone around the owner's neck when
increasing loan repayments and running costs begin to really bite.

Frequent visits to get away from it all will start to look a lot
less attractive when it starts to cost say, 500 miles return at 25
mpg at €5 a litre, or about €100 just to get there and back from
Dublin in the laden down rufty tufty 4WD or high performance luxury
air conditioned limo. Switching on all the electrical appliances or
running the oil fired central heating on arrival; to drive out the
damp will be an increasingly expensive option.

Many holiday homes are built on spots with great views but are
unlikely to be bought by locals as they come with little land other
than a postage stamp sized, not very fertile lawn. Many are probably
impossible to economically heat in the winter due to shoddy
construction and wind exposure.

Some may be viable for year round living but most would best be
scavenged, demolished and useful parts recycled.

VERDICT - Sell Now before the rush starts.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
84
Website
www.finfacts.com
There is the crazy development land system in a country that's not overpopulated; tax of 28% on the average house and once people get on a property ladder, they perceive rising prices to be in their interest.

Accordingly, politicians see no value in proposing significant reforms of the current corrupt system.

Another issue sis that the number of units per thousand inhabitants is below European levels.

The following comes from a March 2005 report:

Ireland has one of the highest home ownership rates in the EU, with 78% of households living in the tenure. A further 9% live in social rented housing, consisting of local authority housing and various forms of voluntary and co-operative housing, and another 9% are in the private rented sector. The country had the lowest number of dwellings per thousand inhabitants in the EU in 1980 and, despite the huge recent building boom, is still at the bottom of the housing availability league. This is reflected in the relatively high average household size (3 persons in 2001), though this was far less than the 4 persons per dwelling in 1971.


Josef Stalin and the crazy Irish development land system

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusiness ... 4680.shtml
 

eurocrat

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Messages
231
While I expcet that buying a house is beyond the limits of many young 'ordinary' couples (Wife: Gaurd, Husband: Nurse type couple) I don't know if that is a drastic as it may appear.

As Libero pointed out, some people are still obviously able to afford to buy a house.

It quite normal in many country for young couples to rent for 5-10 years before considering buying a house. This is not the end of the world, but to Irish people it sounds crazy.

The Irish love property. There is something deep with our physe that tells us we have to own our land. This had been an overlooked factor in the property boom (although D McWilliams may have mentioned it).

Today the Irish are not just content with owning thier own house but also want to own some Croats house aswell. I don't see anything wrong with this as property is quite a solid investment and our oversees purchase will be a legacy of the boom.

When I was home at Christmas I saw an big ad on the door of an auctioneers advertising property in Berlin. Never in that darkest days od closed Sugar Factories and Saw Doctors on Top of the Pops did I ever think that Tuam folk would be going around buying German propetry. (for the record I think buying property in Berlin is a wondeful idea, If I ahd a spare €200,000 that probably what I would do with it)

I think I am rambling a bit here, but my ulitmate point is that maybe the Irish need to start considering continetal style long term leases to counteract the high property prices.

I really hope that a big crash can be avaoided. Some many ordinary folks rely on the price of thier houses in Ireland. I know students in college whoare calculating thier inheritance already.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
84
Website
www.finfacts.com
New and existing house sizes differ significantly among the countries surveyed. The average new house size in Australia and the United States is about 2,200 square feet, Canada and New Zealand 1,900 square feet and both the United Kingdom and Ireland an extraordinarily low 815 square feet and 930 square feet respectively. New British housing is now only 15% larger than the former East German slab developments, of which one million have been vacated, since the reunification of East and West Germany.

see:

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusiness ... 4604.shtml
 

eurocrat

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Messages
231
Thats an extermly interesting article, but I would rather see a comparison of house size withing the EU rather than accross the Anglophonic World. There's far more space to build in Canada then in England. A comparison of Dublin and, say, Stockholm would be more valid than Dublin and Detriot.

I'm pretty sure that the size of houses built in the countryside has increased in the past 15 years while it has dwindled in Urban centres. Also people used always build on at least half acre sites and now those sites are getting down towards 1/3 acre and 1/4 acres. Shame. I think a big graden is better than a biug house.

The Austrian have wonderful house. Anyone thats every been though Tyrol will know this. However the sites they built these lovely houses (3 story wooden jobs often) are really small.
 

james5001

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Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
This is the sort of stuff that made the 20th century the most interesting of times. Dont you want to live through a thrilling historical epoch?
In hindsight, no.
 
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