Housing the elderly in the community

GDPR

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Damien English, Junior Minister with responsibility for Housing and Urban Renewal has set out a proposal to provide €100,000 in prize money for whomever comes up with the best solution demonstrating innovation in design and delivering housing solutions for elderly people. The aim is to provide
- smart technologies in housing for older people;
- adaptation of existing housing stock to meet the needs of older people, and;
- provide life time communities

The general thrust is to use technology to achieve warmer, energy efficient homes, that don't take a whole lot of renovation as one goes from the starter home with kids, to the empty nest syndrome when kids grow up and leave, and when person are elderly and less mobile. Much of the talk about life time communities is simply providing a range of housing types, from 1 bed to for plus within a community or indeed a large housing estate, to cater for all sectors of society, including our elderly. That means we shouldn't just cater for the first time buyer three bed semi-detached demand which suits a sector of the population at a particular life stage.

The challenge for the entrants and indeed future prize winner is to come up with a design that is feasible, cost effective and has potential for mainstreaming into the future. It is intended that the competition will be open to applicants early in the new year. So for any budding architects, engineers, designers or indeed people with an interest in this area, all thoughts are welcome. What does p.ie think?

The ageing of our population represents one of the most significant demographic and societal developments that Ireland faces in the years ahead, with the number of people over the age of 65 expected to reach 1.4 million by 2041. Across this same period, the number over the age of 80 is set to quadruple, from 128,000 in 2011 to some 480,000. The implications for public policy in areas such as housing, health and urban and rural planning are considerable.
- See more at: Minister English announces
 


talkingshop

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Damien English, Junior Minister with responsibility for Housing and Urban Renewal has set out a proposal to provide €100,000 in prize money for whomever comes up with the best solution demonstrating innovation in design and delivering housing solutions for elderly people. The aim is to provide
- smart technologies in housing for older people;
- adaptation of existing housing stock to meet the needs of older people, and;
- provide life time communities

The general thrust is to use technology to achieve warmer, energy efficient homes, that don't take a whole lot of renovation as one goes from the starter home with kids, to the empty nest syndrome when kids grow up and leave, and when person are elderly and less mobile. Much of the talk about life time communities is simply providing a range of housing types, from 1 bed to for plus within a community or indeed a large housing estate, to cater for all sectors of society, including our elderly. That means we shouldn't just cater for the first time buyer three bed semi-detached demand which suits a sector of the population at a particular life stage.

The challenge for the entrants and indeed future prize winner is to come up with a design that is feasible, cost effective and has potential for mainstreaming into the future. It is intended that the competition will be open to applicants early in the new year. So for any budding architects, engineers, designers or indeed people with an interest in this area, all thoughts are welcome. What does p.ie think?



- See more at: Minister English announces

I don't really understand this - is it about adapting existing older houses or designing estates or what?

It seems to me every development should be forced to have a mix of houses - including some 2 bed or small 3 bed. But can this be enforced? I don't know.
 

GDPR

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I don't really understand this - is it about adapting existing older houses or designing estates or what?

It seems to me every development should be forced to have a mix of houses - including some 2 bed or small 3 bed. But can this be enforced? I don't know.
Larger housing developments can be refused planning if they don't provide enough of a housing mix. This would allow people to upsize or downsize as they need within that same estate say fir example. Adapting existing housing stock is trickier. Take a standard 3 bed semi. Downstairs you have sitting room at the front with kitchen/dining room at the rear. Upstairs 3 beds. But what if you're immobile through old age or illness, need to have a bedroom and big enough toiket/shower downstairs. I would see a solution akin to an Ikea type approach with being able to move internal walls around without too much fuss which means they should not be load bearing for upstairs. Older and smaller houses again are trickier to adapt without major and costly renovation or extension.

I think the thrust is to allow elderly people the chance to stay at home where they prefer and is cheaper than public or private nursing home, taking up beds in hospital when they don't medically need to be there.
 

talkingshop

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Larger housing developments can be refused planning if they don't provide enough of a housing mix. This would allow people to upsize or downsize as they need within that same estate say fir example. Adapting existing housing stock is trickier. Take a standard 3 bed semi. Downstairs you have sitting room at the front with kitchen/dining room at the rear. Upstairs 3 beds. But what if you're immobile through old age or illness, need to have a bedroom and big enough toiket/shower downstairs. I would see a solution akin to an Ikea type approach with being able to move internal walls around without too much fuss which means they should not be load bearing for upstairs. Older and smaller houses again are trickier to adapt without major and costly renovation or extension.

I think the thrust is to allow elderly people the chance to stay at home where they prefer and is cheaper than public or private nursing home, taking up beds in hospital when they don't medically need to be there.
How large do they have to be for that? I think it should be enforced everywhere - no building even 30 four or five bed houses without putting in a few smaller units/apartments.
 

GDPR

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How large do they have to be for that? I think it should be enforced everywhere - no building even 30 four or five bed houses without putting in a few smaller units/apartments.
Depends on the council, what housing stock is there and what they need. Some councils will need lots more one or two bed units so they'll tailor their requirements accordingly in different areas and so on. Developments from 20 units up would be fair game for housing mix requirements.
 

talkingshop

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Depends on the council, what housing stock is there and what they need. Some councils will need lots more one or two bed units so they'll tailor their requirements accordingly in different areas and so on. Developments from 20 units up would be fair game for housing mix requirements.
Are you talking about the Part V requirements? I'm not, I'm just talking generally.

I don't know if you are a planner or an architect- I've noticed you post on planning issues a good bit (I'm not a planner, just interested). You know another thing that just does my head in? :) - estates with walls around them, where as the crow flies people are near to shops, bus stops, whatever, but no opening in the wall, so it takes 15 minutes to walk what should be 3 or 4 minutes. Just insane - simply shouldn't be allowed! I thought connectivity was supposed to be a principle nowadays?
 

GDPR

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Agree re walls and estates designed around driving everywhere. I'm not just talking about part v, every council has a fair idea of housing stock, public and private in its area, what's needed etc
 

asset test

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Convert ground floor with adaptations,

Convert upstairs to a flat.

Two problems solved in one.

(Oh I know.... silly me I haven't thought it through at all!)
 

storybud1

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He could just p1ss off and let the market do what it does, got a big house in a good area ? sell it or stay there, people are not commodities . The bedroom Tax in the UK is for council housing but sure who would want to move to Ballymun or Summerhill ?

This is a City Only problem, so just build and Gentrify areas, you could probably buy half of Coolock for 5 billion, Gentrify it and sell it for profit.
 

GDPR

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I have seen comments from a previous bord pleanala member that duplexes should replace semi detached units as the standard for housing estates.
 

asset test

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A flat with outside steps up to it?
Not necessarily. A common porch area with two doors, one for downstairs, and the other for up. Or two doors in the hallway. Totally separate units with GOOD sound insulation.

House conversions are prolific in the UK. Not so much here, and I have often wondered why.

If it was done, the elderly person continues living in own home with community around them that they are used to. They have someone upstairs aswell in an emergency.
 

effer

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He could just p1ss off and let the market do what it does, got a big house in a good area ? sell it or stay there, people are not commodities . The bedroom Tax in the UK is for council housing but sure who would want to move to Ballymun or Summerhill ?

This is a City Only problem, so just build and Gentrify areas, you could probably buy half of Coolock for 5 billion, Gentrify it and sell it for profit.
How is one to gentrify the people who're currently living there? Considering the higher rates of social problems in such places.
 

talkingshop

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He could just p1ss off and let the market do what it does, got a big house in a good area ? sell it or stay there, people are not commodities . The bedroom Tax in the UK is for council housing but sure who would want to move to Ballymun or Summerhill ?

This is a City Only problem, so just build and Gentrify areas, you could probably buy half of Coolock for 5 billion, Gentrify it and sell it for profit.
The problem is that when the people with the big house in the good area get old, and would happily move to a smaller house - less mantainance, less energy costs, etc. - there often is no smaller house on their road, or nearby, that they can move to.
 
D

Deleted member 34656

The problem is that when the people with the big house in the good area get old, and would happily move to a smaller house - less mantainance, less energy costs, etc. - there often is no smaller house on their road, or nearby, that they can move to.
This is a load of old bollix.

My parents built a house when I was 16, me and all my siblings were in boarding school by then but they still act like if they sold the how's it would uproot us all, damage the family, blah de blah.

It's a total crock and people shouldn't be allowed to use their age as an excuse when it suits them.
 

talkingshop

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This is a load of old bollix.

My parents built a house when I was 16, me and all my siblings were in boarding school by then but they still act like if they sold the how's it would uproot us all, damage the family, blah de blah.

It's a total crock and people shouldn't be allowed to use their age as an excuse when it suits them.
Kick them out then! We'll probably have to amend the Constitution first though. :roll:

(Did you amend your signature after those Ballyjamesduff killings? If so why, just to try to wind people up?)
 
D

Deleted member 34656

Kick them out then! We'll probably have to amend the Constitution first though. :roll:

(Did you amend your signature after those Ballyjamesduff killings? If so why, just to try to wind people up?)
Oh, don't worry, if they could make a few bob on the transaction they'd be a good deal less worried about 'de family'. :roll:

(Ballyjamesduff? Where's that now)
 

redhead

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Valiant effort to engender debate on a real subject.

There was a project between UCD/TCD a few years back dedicated to this area called TRIL, with the focus on technology.

http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/UCD--TRIL.pdf

Not sure what became of it.

The point made above about maisonettes is very relevant. Where I grew up in London there were lots of large houses but almost all of them were converted into maisonettes with elderly people often living in the ground floor flat.

I lived in a place like this as did many of my friends. Five flats in total, 1 or 2 bedrooms, designed for living (not just to maximise space) and to house small families and single people.

All were owner occupied and the original owner of the house, an elderly lady, lived on the ground floor. Everybody knew everyone and there were even connecting doors downstairs and she would let any kids play in the garden.

Of course this was before the UK housing boom in the 80's which is probably why we don't have a similar situation in Ireland as we seemed to have missed this developmental stage prior to the Celtic Tiger, then property became too valuable to be considered as anything other than an asset.

One way to promote this would be through tax breaks for owner occupiers who convert houses in this way and to have them adhere to certain specifications in terms of size, not just square footage but size of bedrooms, bathrooms, living areas etc.

The properties could then be sold on a long leasehold, 99 years or so, to keep them affordable for families and first time buyers. This is how most of those properties in the UK were sold. The idea is to create a home for a lifetime not an investment property.
 

SamsonS

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Not sure how you change Irish deep rooted view on property. My mum lives in a large bungalow, attic converted when we were kids. She's nearly 80, and healthy, but shes not going to move anywhere. Her greatest concern at the moment is who will move into the house next door that's for sale. I
Aside from poor health, I would imagine that the only thing that would make her move would be if the area became difficult because of anti social behaviour.
 
D

Deleted member 34656

Valiant effort to engender debate on a real subject.

There was a project between UCD/TCD a few years back dedicated to this area called TRIL, with the focus on technology.

http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/UCD--TRIL.pdf

Not sure what became of it.

The point made above about maisonettes is very relevant. Where I grew up in London there were lots of large houses but almost all of them were converted into maisonettes with elderly people often living in the ground floor flat.

I lived in a place like this as did many of my friends. Five flats in total, 1 or 2 bedrooms, designed for living (not just to maximise space) and to house small families and single people.

All were owner occupied and the original owner of the house, an elderly lady, lived on the ground floor. Everybody knew everyone and there were even connecting doors downstairs and she would let any kids play in the garden.

Of course this was before the UK housing boom in the 80's which is probably why we don't have a similar situation in Ireland as we seemed to have missed this developmental stage prior to the Celtic Tiger, then property became too valuable to be considered as anything other than an asset.

One way to promote this would be through tax breaks for owner occupiers who convert houses in this way and to have them adhere to certain specifications in terms of size, not just square footage but size of bedrooms, bathrooms, living areas etc.

The properties could then be sold on a long leasehold, 99 years or so, to keep them affordable for families and first time buyers. This is how most of those properties in the UK were sold. The idea is to create a home for a lifetime not an investment property.
It's relevant that you refer to elderly ladies overly attached to bricks and mortar.

It really doesn't seem to matter who they share the 'home' with or in what way.

Is there an element of playing the helpless female in all this?
 


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