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How about a modern day Marshall Plan


cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,400
Given that we will not be able to trade our way out of this economic cul de sac and that our sovereign default would be likely to bring down the whole euro edifice would it not be in the interest of Europe and indeed the wider world to extend some sort of modern day Marshall Plan to the troubled EC states.
When you look at the way the much reviled German people handled their reunification on their own we should hang our head in shame at our pitiful performance.
However, we are where we are and the boil must be lanced otherwise it will contaminate the whole barrel of apples [ Bertie please copy]and we must now wake up to reality and go to Brussels with our cawbeen in our hand and ask them to step in like the Yanks did in Japan after the war and sort us out.
A sort of IMF lite if you like?
We could rescue our national pride sometime in in the future by becoming a modern well run democracy like Switzerland or Singapore and repay it all with interest over the next 40 years.
 


yellowfish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
3,763
Given that we will not be able to trade our way out of this economic cul de sac and that our sovereign default would be likely to bring down the whole euro edifice would it not be in the interest of Europe and indeed the wider world to extend some sort of modern day Marshall Plan to the troubled EC states.
When you look at the way the much reviled German people handled their reunification on their own we should hang our head in shame at our pitiful performance.
However, we are where we are and the boil must be lanced otherwise it will contaminate the whole barrel of apples [ Bertie please copy]and we must now wake up to reality and go to Brussels with our cawbeen in our hand and ask them to step in like the Yanks did in Japan after the war and sort us out.
A sort of IMF lite if you like?
We could rescue our national pride sometime in in the future by becoming a modern well run democracy like Switzerland or Singapore and repay it all with interest over the next 40 years.
I would have to start by completely disagreeing that, Germany was reviled at the time of reunification, or even at any point since ww2. Watching the wall come down and seeing the German people reunited was a highlight for my generation.
However that aside, The marshall plan was designed to help rebuild a world (and particularly a European continent) Destroyed by war, it was also meant to underpin democracy and was born out of the lessons learnt from versailles. (spelling?) It was looked at by the USSR, but refused due to its democratic credentials, and soviet satalites were forced to say no.
It aided a devastated Germany and those others who needed to come back from blighted war time economics. As bad as this country is, we do not compare to that.
Not wishing to be to harsh, but the comparison was made in the dail yesterday, with someone comparing the debt to pearl harbour and calling it Ireland's day of infamy. (infamy, infamy they've all got it infamy, ran through my head) I like this country, but sometimes your ability to see yourselves as worst off ever for everything is a bit mad, We were not bombed by japan yesterday, we did not lose most of our pacific fleet and nearly 2500 servicemen. We are not being dragged into a world war, nor are we a devastated land just emerging from one.
Your idea has some merritt but needs rephrasing
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
14
Firstly, i would like to inform you that there is no such thing as a sovereign debt!

Second thing is: Ireland is a sovereign republic, and the only way i see us getting out of this mess is to cut all ties with the EU. We can then print our own debt free money and the our massive debt (all be it fake) can be paid off, and never again will we have a national debt.

How can a country get out of debt if it owes interest on every single piece of fiat currency that is in existance within that country....answer, It CANT. its prepedual debt.

The reason the world is experienceing this economic problem is because the whole system is a ponzi scheme, and it is reaching its mathimatical limit.

Those that control the amount of money in circulation control all. it used to be the gold smiths, now its the bankers. This doesnt have to be the way, the government could control the money supply. and until they do, the bankers are controlling the government.

Its all well and good saying the government work for us, the voters, but they work for the people with the power, and until the bankers do not control the money supply the politians listen to them, becuase they have the power, the REAL power.
 

firefly123

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Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,165
Firstly, i would like to inform you that there is no such thing as a sovereign debt!

Second thing is: Ireland is a sovereign republic, and the only way i see us getting out of this mess is to cut all ties with the EU. We can then print our own debt free money and the our massive debt (all be it fake) can be paid off, and never again will we have a national debt.

How can a country get out of debt if it owes interest on every single piece of fiat currency that is in existance within that country....answer, It CANT. its prepedual debt.

The reason the world is experienceing this economic problem is because the whole system is a ponzi scheme, and it is reaching its mathimatical limit.

Those that control the amount of money in circulation control all. it used to be the gold smiths, now its the bankers. This doesnt have to be the way, the government could control the money supply. and until they do, the bankers are controlling the government.

Its all well and good saying the government work for us, the voters, but they work for the people with the power, and until the bankers do not control the money supply the politians listen to them, becuase they have the power, the REAL power.
I think I understand what you are saying and if it were true you have to wonder why it has not already happened. Quick question though. Since we have no heavy industry etc would all the stuff we have to import not cost an absolute fortune in sheckels/groats/punts/seashells that we now use. Would we be back to thatch cottages and eating seasonal vegetables (not a bad thing by the way!). I suppose we would become a tourist mecca as our prices would be so low and hey we brew our own guinness! Ok I am in!:lol:
 

Passer-by

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Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,436
Firstly, i would like to inform you that there is no such thing as a sovereign debt!

Second thing is: Ireland is a sovereign republic, and the only way i see us getting out of this mess is to cut all ties with the EU. We can then print our own debt free money and the our massive debt (all be it fake) can be paid off, and never again will we have a national debt.
Ahh, the North Korean economic solution. :D
 

Tom245

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Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
495
The problem is we already had a Marshall plan when we got structural funds, but FF pi**ed it all away on their cronies. Why would be trusted again?
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
14
We,ve loads of resourchs. The government handed over a fairly decent oil feild to Shel for pittens. That wasnt the governments to give away though, that was mine and yours, the peoples.

We have plenty of land, ireland could thrieve given the chance. We have huge oppertunities for wind power, tidal power atc. QWe could grow hemp and produce top quality fabrics and materials and export them. Ok we might not have the fancy materialism lifestyle that we grew acustumed to over the past decade, but what harm, we would be free and happy, and not up to our bollux in debt to private bankers, that only want total domination.

I'm glad you agree though, and to answer your question, why hasnt it being done? Becuase we have a bunch of muppets in power, who have forgotten who they work for. All the tyrants should be oused asap, and our fine country could be saved!
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
54
Global debt IS a pondzi scheme, but printing out own money wont get s out of it, it will lead to hyperinflation as in Germany in 1930 and Zimbabwe a few years ago.

The real issue here is usury. WTF is that I hear you ask? The charging of intrest on something borrowed is tha answer.

It used to be illegal in Christian states, and only became OK in the past 500 or so years. We need to move back to a state of affairs where a pund borrowed is a pound paid back.

We need to get self sufficient to do this, and we need a national plan that gets EVERYBODY to work. People n the dole are not a problem - they are an assett. We can use their labour for what our state needs: leaving them idle is the crime.

Why use workers from Poland to build roads, when we can make a semi-state body and hire people off the dole?

Irish jobs for Irish people, especially in a time of crises such as this.

As for the foreignors on the dole everyone is giving out about - the cost of their welfare should be billed to the EU. Its the small print on their grant aid that meant we had to take in all and sundry. They gave us aid on condition that when Europe expanded we took in the immigrant labour seekers. Maastrcht referendum. I remember one politician - could have been Burke - saying to an interviewer on the radio when challenged about 100,000 could come (oh, the innocence and naivety!) and its effect on the Irish labour market. The answer: "Sure who'd want to come to Ireland?"
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
14
@ Tom: they didnt invest all that money into our roads for us tom, that was there so thay could but 1000's of europeans in ireland in the future and so that the infrastructure would be able to cope.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
14
@Thomas: I agree with what you are saying, but countries that printed their own currency (debt free) thrieved for years after the introduction of said currency.

Take a look at secretofoz.com
 

yellowfish

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Dec 1, 2004
Messages
3,763
The problem is we already had a Marshall plan when we got structural funds, but FF pi**ed it all away on their cronies. Why would be trusted again?
True enough, when we moved here their were lots of Blue signs saying "this project sponsored by the EU fund for Blah" quite a few are still up. I don't know how long you received that sort of funding but you were still getting it whilst the tigger was roaring (oh and what a wonderful tigger he was.) I doubt that having only so recently become a net contributor, appeals for such funding will be widely smiled upon.
I have to say that even though i do not believe that the term "marshall" plan is fitting, i still think this place may be Fu####, and am seriously considering relocating family yellowfish back to dear old blighty. These debts are savage and grossly unfair, i don't know if i want my offspring burdened with them.
still we have to be able to sell the house to do that!!! (being melodram, seriously pissed off by yesterday)
 

cry freedom

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Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,400
The problem is we already had a Marshall plan when we got structural funds, but FF pi**ed it all away on their cronies. Why would be trusted again?
Agreed. We should go around with a big sign saying, "We f**ked up big time but just give us one more chance and we promise to get it right this time"!
And automatically exclude FF from having anything to do with the new money.[By constitutional amendment if necessary]
 

ManOfReason

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,328
Forced emigration for all FF tribal families - this time it would be nice to get rid of the people who bleed this country dry instead of our best and brightest. Unfortunately this won't happen. We will see yet another lost generation over the next five years.
 

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