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How about we make FF TDs an offer they can't refuse?


Simbo67

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Jan 23, 2004
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572
FF are in an uniquely weak position at the moment. Why don't we start thinking of ways of furthering their destruction further and making Irish politics a united FF-free zone? Its time we went for the jugular (and not only FG but Labour too).
Either before or after the general election (surely this year), we start offering FF TD's a place on the FG ticket or in the FG party? No point going after the family history FFers but surely as self proclaimed home of "pragmatists" there are surely a few FFers who realise that the next decade is unlikely to see them with any influence. We give them a version of an amnesty (i.e. they will have a decent chance of promotion and their past history won't count against them). It could be worth it to peel a few FFers off and it would cause panic in the ranks.

What you think?
 


A

AMCW177

You'd have to be very careful about who you approach. Nobody with the slightest whiff of corruption about them - if you can kind such a person in FF! But there's a load of anonymous lobby-fodder backbench FF TDs who only care about pothole-fixing and being the big man in their local area. You might be able to detach a few of them.

It may well not play well with the electorate though!
 

DCon

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FF will only come if you give them cash or favours.
 

Victor Meldrew

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You would be buying them with a place on the ballot paper.

Grassroots will lynch them at the convention, no-one will canvass for them. Especially ambitious FG councilors who would be sidelined, (PD councilors were hard enough to stomach in the locals).
Finally, this would represent "Accountability free politics" something we are trying to stamp all over....
 

Simbo67

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572
Now is the time to be ruthless, we peel some soft pragmatic ffers off and cause mass panic in the rest of the party.
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
FF are in an uniquely weak position at the moment. Why don't we start thinking of ways of furthering their destruction further and making Irish politics a united FF-free zone? Its time we went for the jugular (and not only FG but Labour too).
Either before or after the general election (surely this year), we start offering FF TD's a place on the FG ticket or in the FG party? No point going after the family history FFers but surely as self proclaimed home of "pragmatists" there are surely a few FFers who realise that the next decade is unlikely to see them with any influence. We give them a version of an amnesty (i.e. they will have a decent chance of promotion and their past history won't count against them). It could be worth it to peel a few FFers off and it would cause panic in the ranks.

What you think?
Brilliant- why didn't people think of this sooner? But jumping to fg might be one too far for some - what about labour eg jim mcdaid and joe behan types (up to now it would have been unthinkable). Grealish must be vulnerable. Lowry could be bought off - eg go easy on the ff connection in tipp and be reintroduced when he is cleared by moriarty. Could john mcguinness join george. Lee's fg? What about other exministers? Probably not, but it is worth asking.
 

Simbo67

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572
Brilliant- why didn't people think of this sooner? But jumping to fg might be one too far for some - what about labour eg jim mcdaid and joe behan types (up to now it would have been unthinkable). Grealish must be vulnerable. Lowry could be bought off - eg go easy on the ff connection in tipp and be reintroduced when he is cleared by moriarty. Could john mcguinness join george. Lee's fg? What about other exministers? Probably not, but it is worth asking.
Why not, if it works we get a few extra TD's and the rest of them start looking for exit strategies. We look at some of the newer TD's tell them that everything is going to be OK in FG (or labour). We have to think outside the box here, of course it will cause consternation at the constituency level but that is what the Taoiseach's nominations are for!
I am being completely cynical here but the end maybe justifies the means?
 
A

AMCW177

I am being completely cynical here but the end maybe justifies the means?
Possibly....but only if you are very careful not to infect FG with the FF corruption virus. Doubtless there are some decent honest FFers, they can't all be criminals. As long as you were careful about who was approached, and it was only a handful (at most 10), enough to do the job of toppling Cowen, then the electorate may even applaud such tactics.

It could badly backfire though. "Sure der all de same" would love it.

How would the grassroots feel about it too? You'd have an FFer suddenly parachuting in as the new FG candidate, where you might have local FGers who have been working hard for years to build up a platform for a Dáil run.
 

mccafferty cat

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Yes, just think of the intellectual and ideological weight of some of the TDs that Fine Gael could poach:

Beverley Cooper-Flynn - liar, perjurer and she who encouraged tax evasion
Michael Kennedy - that hater of lewdity and nude portraits
Mattie McGrath - noted poet, scholar and philosopher king
John Moloney - orator and smooth talker. An Irish Obama perhaps?
Sean Fleming - FF treasurer while Haughey was robbing FF's money.
Máire Hoctor - known for her assured and flawless television appearances
Barry Andrews - proven to cure all known forms of insomnia
Frank Fahey - a humble soul known for his impeccable ethics in public office.

With talent like the above simply GUSHING from the FF benches, surely FG must try to poach them as a matter of urgency?!?!
 

Simbo67

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Yes, just think of the intellectual and ideological weight of some of the TDs that Fine Gael could poach:

Beverley Cooper-Flynn - liar, perjurer and she who encouraged tax evasion
Michael Kennedy - that hater of lewdity and nude portraits
Mattie McGrath - noted poet, scholar and philosopher king
John Moloney - orator and smooth talker. An Irish Obama perhaps?
Sean Fleming - FF treasurer while Haughey was robbing FF's money.
Máire Hoctor - known for her assured and flawless television appearances
Barry Andrews - proven to cure all known forms of insomnia
Frank Fahey - a humble soul known for his impeccable ethics in public office.

With talent like the above simply GUSHING from the FF benches, surely FG must try to poach them as a matter of urgency?!?!
Lazy email of the day. Of course the punters we pick have to be clean and with no history, that's why I said we should focus on the new batch. Time to think long game here, as for the comment about "shure der all the same", well they are just closet FFers anyway in my humble opinion. I am not talking about all of them, I am talking about a max of three or four, maybe five. Good guys, pragmatic, know which their bread is buttered on.
 

Simbo67

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How would the grassroots feel about it too? You'd have an FFer suddenly parachuting in as the new FG candidate, where you might have local FGers who have been working hard for years to build up a platform for a Dáil run.
Yeah, they wouldn't be happy but you have to communicate to them that this is the long game, we are trying to eradicate FF, have to look at the bigger picture.
What we don't want is a FF rising from the ashes after FG being in one term of office and us being kicked out for another generation.
To the poster who said it belies a weakness in the FG candidates, that rubbish and you know it is. What I am suggesting is: we pick four or five disgruntled decent FFers, we tell them there's a home on this side of the house for you and all is forgiven and that if you fight for it, you can be part of a team that will change Ireland.
 
A

AMCW177

With talent like the above simply GUSHING from the FF benches, surely FG must try to poach them as a matter of urgency?!?!
LOL. Are there actually any FFers who aren't corrupt or insane?

I'm deeply unsure about this myself. BUT the Dáil numbers are what they are, and the only way to topple this regime is to peel off between 6 and 10 TDs from FF, the Greens and the Inds. Otherwise they can stubbornly limp on for another 3 years and there's damn all anybody can do about it.

The average punter doesn't really understand how the Dáil works, I don't know how many times in the last couple of months I've heard people whine "But why aren't FG kicking them out of power?", as if Enda somehow had the magical power to banish Cowen and all his works.

The question is simply this: how can Enda get 83 ducks in a row to vote against the Government and force an election? And any ideas should be considered to achieve that aim and get this woeful corrupt incompetent shower of eejits out of office, before they bankrupt the country entirely.
 

Simbo67

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Yup, thats what I mean, but I am also talking about post a general election, we offer some of the remaining FFers a home. Never allow FF any time to recover. Labour should be doing the same. Jack Lynch reputedly flipped a coin to see who he would join, FG or FF. We should be looking for those guys.
 

Question R24U

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Possibly....but only if you are very careful not to infect FG with the FF corruption virus.
Power corrupts.

What would be the point in bribing FGers if they are not in power. Give them 10 years and then we will see the corruption.
A ban on corporate donations and a SIPO with garda powers would be a must from the outset - this would also hamper ff's ability to recover.
 

Simbo67

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Simbo67

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I think we have to ensure everything is transparent.

Vouched expenses is only the beginning. Perhaps all TDs should have their personal accounts audited?

Corruption is a significant determinant of economic performance and competitiveness. Thats why high wage Denmark is more competitive than low wage Southern Italy.
Again, completely agree with you on this.
Independent appointments to state boards, the whole hog.
 

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