How are we going to explain this to our grandchildren?

Disillusioned democrat

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The first two decades of this century will pretty much undo the previous 80 years since independence and we'll have basically taken a roller-coaster ride from being one of the poorest to one of the richest to being one of the poorest country in Europe and gone from being an independent Christian nation to being a multicultural ghetto-state of Europe losing the perpetual race to the bottom.

During all of this we had a "democracy", so that MUST mean we wanted this to happen, or so history will judge.

When our kids are middle-aged and their kids are facing into a bleak future of minimum-wage, maximum rent indenture and those of us lucky enough to be still alive and living in the last few remaining privately owned homes in the country, how do you thing we'll explain this to them when the come home from school with wondrous tales of Padraig Pearse leading a troop of predominantly white Catholics into the GPO to fight for some kind of "independence".

How will we explain how we let the government double down on the banks gambling debts and make us pay, how will we explain that we let 1000s of "refugees" into the country when we had a home grown housing crisis and how will we explain that we let our politicians sell off prime property at bargain basement prices without protecting renters or vulnerable mortgage holders, preferring to make people homeless than find solutions to arrears.

I don't have an answer to any of this, so kind of hoping I never have to explain, to be honest.
 
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hurling_lad

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The first two decades of this century will pretty much undo the previous 80 years since independence and we'll have basically taken a roller-coaster ride from being the poorest to the richest to the poorest country in Europe and gone from being an independent Christian nation to being a multicultural ghetto-state of Europe losing the perpetual race to the bottom.

During all of this we had a "democracy", so that MUST mean we wanted this to happen, or so history will judge.

When our kids are middle-aged and their kids are facing into a bleak future of minimum-wage, maximum rent indenture and those of us lucky enough to be still alive and living in the last few remaining privately owned homes in the country, how do you thing we'll explain this to them when the come home from school with wondrous tales of Padraig Pearse leading a troop of predominantly white Catholics into the GPO to fight for some kind of "independence".

How will we explain how we let the government double down on the banks gambling debts and make us pay, how will we explain that we let 1000s of "refugees" into the country when we had a home grown housing crisis and how will we explain that we let our politicians sell off prime property at bargain basement prices without protecting renters or vulnerable mortgage holders, preferring to make people homeless than find solutions to arrears.

I don't have an answer to any of this, so kind of hoping I never have to explain, to be honest.
On what measurement are we likely to be the poorest country in Europe?

At present, we are in the top 10 richest countries in the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
 

silverharp

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I'd tell them to appropriate the older generation's pension funds :D and ration healthcare to the then elderly like its a bottle of good Whiskey in Saudi. Or the dept of Finance better have a super secret protocol to successfully default on the entire national debt and do a reboot.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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roc_

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The part that needs explaining is 1997-2007. That was when the damage was done. That is when we refused to vote through 1997,2002,2007 for higher tax, counter-cyclical policies, and/or lowering of house prices. When we voted en masse for higher salaries, increased welfare, and one's own equity worth - on the backs of those who would come after us, who would pay through increased indenture to property. That is the period we acquiesced in living high off of the economic-rents of this country; living high off of the promise of the future labour of our children, and their children.

Although it is true that when those choices bit us on our collective hole, we refused to vote in 2011 to fully accept the responsibility for loss and damage caused by intentional heating of the economy. (Policies enacted by our elected government which acted on rate of savings, level of investment, level of consumption, liquidity preference... which is how economies are controlled when interest rate is under constraint, beyond direct control. Never mind the property scam.).

Our society remains very immature in our degree of personal or societal responsibility, or proper, critical and adequate reflection - these are the key elements of learning and maturing towards becoming a society of dignity and responsibility.

All we have to do is actually do it. Grow up at last. Stop blaming government, politicians, banks, refugees, the EU, US imperialism, and all the rest of the protracted pantheon of werewolves allegedly responsible for all our ills.
 

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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The first two decades of this century will pretty much undo the previous 80 years since independence and we'll have basically taken a roller-coaster ride from being the poorest to the richest to the poorest country in Europe and gone from being an independent Christian nation to being a multicultural ghetto-state of Europe losing the perpetual race to the bottom.

During all of this we had a "democracy", so that MUST mean we wanted this to happen, or so history will judge.

When our kids are middle-aged and their kids are facing into a bleak future of minimum-wage, maximum rent indenture and those of us lucky enough to be still alive and living in the last few remaining privately owned homes in the country, how do you thing we'll explain this to them when the come home from school with wondrous tales of Padraig Pearse leading a troop of predominantly white Catholics into the GPO to fight for some kind of "independence".

How will we explain how we let the government double down on the banks gambling debts and make us pay, how will we explain that we let 1000s of "refugees" into the country when we had a home grown housing crisis and how will we explain that we let our politicians sell off prime property at bargain basement prices without protecting renters or vulnerable mortgage holders, preferring to make people homeless than find solutions to arrears.

I don't have an answer to any of this, so kind of hoping I never have to explain, to be honest.
I have an answer...it's because politics has taken it's eye of the bigger picture of economic policy and we are stuck arguing in perpetuity about sidelines and diversions such as the ones above you have chosen as your own, and all the while so called leftists engage in petty bickering about gender politics and the like.

We're more focused on division than we are on solutions, you might as well tell the grandkids now. And if you're feverishly penning a snide rebuttal...just go up one sentence and think about the silliness of it all as the house burns around us.
 

Accidental sock

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I have no intention of talking to my grandkids. Little ingrates.
 

Bill

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I think I'd start off with "well now little mohammad that's a very good question, I'm glad you asked"
 

Ulpian

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In general I agree with the original poster.

However, Ireland has always had a culture of selfishness / me fein ism.

In the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 70s and 80s young people were exported abroad to work and settle. To a significant extent that was because of policies that were intended to protect those who were already in comfortable positions socially and economically.

There are numerous examples in Irish society. Rural dwellers expect to build one-off houses because they can get the land for free. The taxpayers and the environment then bear the costs - septic tanks, broadband connections, etc. Equally, allowing development only in towns / villages would almost certainly result on those owning land on the margins of such towns / villages gouging money in any developments.

I consider myself lucky to have grown up in 1990s Ireland because that was a transition period when Catholic pieties were being replaced by Liberal pieties and the contest between then resulted in a more open society. Now people like Una Mullaly are the equivalent of John Charles McQuaid, openly calling for certain opinions to be censored.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I have an answer...it's because politics has taken it's eye of the bigger picture of economic policy and we are stuck arguing in perpetuity about sidelines and diversions such as the ones above you have chosen as your own, and all the while so called leftists engage in petty bickering about gender politics and the like.

We're more focused on division than we are on solutions, you might as well tell the grandkids now. And if you're feverishly penning a snide rebuttal...just go up one sentence and think about the silliness of it all as the house burns around us.
I completely agree - government seems to have thrived on dividing competing sectoral interests into electorally insignificant cohorts so they can never unite behind a real cause that could make a change to the toxic status quo/
 

RasherHash

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The first two decades of this century will pretty much undo the previous 80 years since independence and we'll have basically taken a roller-coaster ride from being the poorest to the richest to the poorest country in Europe and gone from being an independent Christian nation to being a multicultural ghetto-state of Europe losing the perpetual race to the bottom.

During all of this we had a "democracy", so that MUST mean we wanted this to happen, or so history will judge.

When our kids are middle-aged and their kids are facing into a bleak future of minimum-wage, maximum rent indenture and those of us lucky enough to be still alive and living in the last few remaining privately owned homes in the country, how do you thing we'll explain this to them when the come home from school with wondrous tales of Padraig Pearse leading a troop of predominantly white Catholics into the GPO to fight for some kind of "independence".

How will we explain how we let the government double down on the banks gambling debts and make us pay, how will we explain that we let 1000s of "refugees" into the country when we had a home grown housing crisis and how will we explain that we let our politicians sell off prime property at bargain basement prices without protecting renters or vulnerable mortgage holders, preferring to make people homeless than find solutions to arrears.

I don't have an answer to any of this, so kind of hoping I never have to explain, to be honest.
Why are you being racist.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Disillusioned democrat

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In general I agree with the original poster.

However, Ireland has always had a culture of selfishness / me fein ism.

In the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 70s and 80s young people were exported abroad to work and settle. To a significant extent that was because of policies that were intended to protect those who were already in comfortable positions socially and economically.

There are numerous examples in Irish society. Rural dwellers expect to build one-off houses because they can get the land for free. The taxpayers and the environment then bear the costs - septic tanks, broadband connections, etc. Equally, allowing development only in towns / villages would almost certainly result on those owning land on the margins of such towns / villages gouging money in any developments.

I consider myself lucky to have grown up in 1990s Ireland because that was a transition period when Catholic pieties were being replaced by Liberal pieties and the contest between then resulted in a more open society. Now people like Una Mullaly are the equivalent of John Charles McQuaid, openly calling for certain opinions to be censored.
The 80s and 90s were halcyon days alright, there was a time when it looked as if the trajectory was really, really good - full employment, reasonable tax rate, affordable homes and a genuine liberal feeling...but we seemed to pass through that way too quickly and get to the complete mess we're in now without any pause for reflection.
 

Herr Rommel

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We are out of here once her father kicks the bucket or as soon as I can get him into a home so the mess that good old Ireland is making for itself won't effect my family.
 

hurling_lad

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The first two decades of this century will pretty much undo the previous 80 years since independence and we'll have basically taken a roller-coaster ride from being the poorest to the richest to the poorest country in Europe and gone from being an independent Christian nation to being a multicultural ghetto-state of Europe losing the perpetual race to the bottom.

During all of this we had a "democracy", so that MUST mean we wanted this to happen, or so history will judge.

When our kids are middle-aged and their kids are facing into a bleak future of minimum-wage, maximum rent indenture and those of us lucky enough to be still alive and living in the last few remaining privately owned homes in the country, how do you thing we'll explain this to them when the come home from school with wondrous tales of Padraig Pearse leading a troop of predominantly white Catholics into the GPO to fight for some kind of "independence".

How will we explain how we let the government double down on the banks gambling debts and make us pay, how will we explain that we let 1000s of "refugees" into the country when we had a home grown housing crisis and how will we explain that we let our politicians sell off prime property at bargain basement prices without protecting renters or vulnerable mortgage holders, preferring to make people homeless than find solutions to arrears.

I don't have an answer to any of this, so kind of hoping I never have to explain, to be honest.
Funny that you talk about the 'good old days' when we were an "independent Christian nation". In the context of what do we tell our grandchildren, what questions exactly did you ask your grandparents about sexual abuse in industrial schools, slavery in the laundries and the taking of babies off their mothers for sale to American couples?
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Sure we are, and I'm sure the other 9 have a housing crisis, a health crisis, an impending pension crisis, an unsustainable (and growing) national debt and a government that doesn't have its own peoples' best interest at heart.
That's the lack of any re-distributive force in Irish politics. You can't be looking after health, housing, welfare, education and so forth and vulture funds at the same time.
 


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